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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 202 39.61%
No 259 50.78%
Unsure 49 9.61%
Voters: 510. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-30-2022, 04:10 PM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,714,447 times
Reputation: 1350

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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
They can try, but the result is just often not very good compared to Western or even former Warsaw Pact manufacturing. I mean Lada is still an actual automobile company making vehicles but they trail even their sibling at Renault, Dacia, on the open market. You see a good number of Dacias in Western and Central Europe because they’re seen as pretty reliable as well as cheap. Lada not so much.

Their home grown civilian aviation sector simply cannot compete with Airbus or Boeing and mostly manufactures for a domestic market willing to overlook the plans’ shortcomings in the name of patriotism.
They can make spaceships but not jets or cars?
That doesn't seem reasonable.
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Old 12-30-2022, 04:18 PM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,714,447 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Why don't you tell us since you know everything?
I asked you all.
You are the ones that claim they can't.
I don't believe that...if they don't make something, it's a choice not a inability.
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Old 12-30-2022, 04:21 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,201,239 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
They can make spaceships but not jets or cars?
That doesn't seem reasonable.
Military needs would come first, same as here.
Pure enough Si was the problem their science could not solve.
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Old 12-30-2022, 04:58 PM
 
8,224 posts, read 3,778,108 times
Reputation: 2769
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Taiwan makes the best chips.
You need to be able to make the equipment, if you are not allowed to buy it.
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Old 12-30-2022, 05:03 PM
 
2,394 posts, read 1,011,677 times
Reputation: 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
What happens in Donbas is disputed. Allegedly there is a neo-nazi movement, allegedly there is unrest due to Russian interference. I admit that I do not know the actual truth.

But, for the sake of argument I will accept your assertion.

It changes nothing about the responsibility for an unjust war. If there is political/racial tension in Donbas, it is the responsibility of the Ukrainian government to address by holding neo-nazis or Russian agitators responsible. It does not mean that Russia can invade Ukraine, attempt to take Kyiv, declare the annexation of four provinces, attack civilian infrastructure, kill men, rape women and kidnap children.

Neo-Nazi's have infiltrated Ukrainian govt and military so they are not going to going a damn thing about the killings.

Ethnic Russian cleansing isn't the only reason. There's also the expansion of NATO, and the coup of 2014.
The residents of Donbas held a referendum and voted to be independent of Ukraine.



And there are war crimes being committed by both sides.
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Old 12-30-2022, 05:17 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,201,239 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
You need to be able to make the equipment, if you are not allowed to buy it.
Usually they used to be able to make things one way or another. Also they had lots of gold for bribes and goods.
My first assignment after graduating was converting amarican drawings to metric for a piece of complex machinery, that was chiper to copy than design and they designed much more complex machines because they did not have drawings...
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Old 12-30-2022, 05:32 PM
 
79,303 posts, read 61,417,491 times
Reputation: 50560
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesclues5 View Post
Neo-Nazi's have infiltrated Ukrainian govt and military so they are not going to going a damn thing about the killings.

Ethnic Russian cleansing isn't the only reason. There's also the expansion of NATO, and the coup of 2014.
The residents of Donbas held a referendum and voted to be independent of Ukraine.



And there are war crimes being committed by both sides.
It's a known fact that everyone is butt-hurt while receiving an arse-kicking.
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Old 12-30-2022, 06:00 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,201,239 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesclues5 View Post
Neo-Nazi's have infiltrated Ukrainian govt and military so they are not going to going a damn thing about the killings.

Ethnic Russian cleansing isn't the only reason. There's also the expansion of NATO, and the coup of 2014.
The residents of Donbas held a referendum and voted to be independent of Ukraine.



And there are war crimes being committed by both sides.
There is a big difference, ukr fight against them (rebels) including civilian population, Russians fight for protection of civilians who are , in principle, their own, and those who still are on Ukr side are their own too.
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Old 12-30-2022, 06:15 PM
 
47,116 posts, read 26,259,959 times
Reputation: 29612
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
They can make spaceships but not jets or cars?
That doesn't seem reasonable.
Agreed. And in fairness, they can make jets and cars, just not very good ones. (The spaceship quality has dropped dramatically over the last decade, too.)
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Old 12-30-2022, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
5,005 posts, read 2,776,184 times
Reputation: 7795
Russia is closing it's borders next week and starting another mobilization......another 300,000 marched off to their death..
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