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But NATO has never been open to considering an application from Ukraine (and Georgia). That's been P's mistake all along. He's been talking to the wrong people. He should have gone directly to NATO's leadership to ask the same question he asked 3 obtuse American Presidents: "are you in favor of Ukraine joining NATO". He would have learned that NATO had rejected the idea back in 2014, and hasn't changed its stance since. IOW, Ukraine's opinion was irrelevant. NATO wasn't going to have them, that's all that counts. Or should have counted, if P had bothered to do more thorough research.
That’s not quite accurate. The truth is, in 2014, Ukraine was considering an offer it received to join the European Union. Ukrainian President Poroshenko decided to reject the offer, and align with Russia instead. Technically, EU membership is not synonymous with NATO membership, but let’s be honest, that’s splitting hairs, as NATO is focused on Military operations and security of its member states, while the EU is an economic partnership, largely comprising the same member states. While membership in one does not automatically confer membership to the other, their interests are co-mingled, and politically, it would indicate a distinct direction, and political disposition. So, claims that there was no interest by NATO to add Ukraine is political double talk. There were a couple of NATO members that were certainly not in favor of Ukraine joining, due to its tense relations with Russia after the color revolution that removed the former pro-Russian government of Poroshenko, but to say there was no interest or desire to add Ukraine as a member is simply not true. The stumbling block was the requirement for unanimous agreement by all members, and a couple of NATO member hold outs with specific preconditions.
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
I still think one of the main reasons for invading was access to Ukraine's subsurface resources on favorable terms. The original plan was to install a puppet regime to achieve favorable deals and other agreements. When that failed, they decided to just take what they needed and flatten Ukraine in the process. So they took the south of the country all the way to Crimea, which hadn't been part of the original plan. They wouldn't have needed to do that, if they'd succeeded in installing a puppet regime.
In any case, the country now is in chaos, with people streaming out on anything that moves. Heaven knows how all those people will survive in whichever countries they end up. More depopulation and brain drain for Russia.
You may believe what you like, but unless you are considering all of the facts and details, you’re unlikely to reach an accurate conclusion. The truth is, like the old saying goes, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. There is more than enough evidence to support the conclusion that NATO expansion is the source of Russian anxiety, aside the fact that they have been screaming that from the rooftops for years? Once again, weeks before Putin ordered the military action, he offered to guarantee Ukraine’s territorial security and integrity in return for Ukraine’s promise not to pursue NATO membership. If there was no NATO membership on the table, as you want to suggest, then there would have been no reason whatsoever for Ukraine to reject the proposal. You’re trying to force the the story to fit the facts, instead of allowing the facts to tell the story. And it doesn’t fit well.
Back to the bit about Poroshenko’s rejection of EU membership. In response to that decision, a western backed (CIA-STATE DEPARTMENT) instigated and organized and funded uprising unfolded demanding Ukraine join the EU, and the ouster of Poroshenko. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out, do ya?
In blunt terms, a Russian friendly Ukrainian government was overthrown by a western/US backed Coup d’etat, and a western friendly puppet regime took its place. It was at this point that the ethnic Russian Donbas regions became disenfranchised, and became the breakaway regions wanting to separate from the government, and for the next 5 years were subjected to Ukrainian military assaults, to which they responded by forming their own defense militias, financed by Russia, and at one point, aided by Russian military units.(depicted as a Russian invasion by western fake news) But this conflict started because of the US instigated Coup in 2014. Period.
So, you can dream up whatever speculation you care to about some secret motive, but the writing is on the wall, clear as day. Of course, all you really need to do is look at a bloody map of the region, like the one I previously posted, with all of the American flags depicting US military bases, and NATO installations surrounding Russia, if you need a visual aide.
Now this is going to be labeled as tin foil hat conspiracy theory by the mouth breathers here, but there is a more sinister aspect to this entire scheme, lurking under the surface. This is part of the “great reset”. And what we are likely to see happen may comprise any number of possibilities, from an escalation of the war, to a protracted standoff where Putin, in response to continued sanctions and isolation, simply cuts off energy resources completely to the EU states, plunging the EU into a energy driven financial meltdown, which will cascade around the globe …. and guess who will be the bad guy? Those damned Rooskies, and Putin! He’s to blame for all of this, when in reality, it was all a part of the grand plan.
The gangsters behind the great reset need a boogie man to blame for the outcome of their deliberate take down of the global economy, in order to usher in their new system. The Russian invasion, and the “necessary response” will be cited as the cause of the economic collapse, when in reality, the collapse was deliberately orchestrated, and Ukraine just an alibi.
You don’t have to believe me, you just remember what I said, and think what you like when the winter storm hits.
Finland’s recent indications of wanting to join NATO is another violation of an agreement made with Russia that they seem to be ready to ignore.
"recent indications"? They've formally applied and have been ratified by 27 out of 30 governments. When Russia rolled their tanks across another nation's border, they sorta joined the club of not-very-trustworty nations. And again - if the majority of Finland's populace is in favor of NATO membership, what makes Russia think they get a vote?
What was formally paid in dollars is now being paid in Rubles.
China agrees to pay for Russian gas in roubles and yuan: Gazprom
Russia is pushing to reduce reliance on the US dollar and boost economic ties with China amid Western sanctions.
6 Sep 2022
Russia’s energy giant Gazprom says it has signed an agreement with China to start payments for gas supplies to China in yuan and roubles instead of US dollars, in a sign of warming relations between Beijing and Moscow, which is under Western sanctions.
“The new payment mechanism is a mutually beneficial, timely, reliable and practical solution,” Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller was quoted as saying in a statement following a video conference meeting with the head of China’s oil group CNPC, Dai Houliang.
"recent indications"? They've formally applied and have been ratified by 27 out of 30 governments. When Russia rolled their tanks across another nation's border, they sorta joined the club of not-very-trustworty nations. And again - if the majority of Finland's populace is in favor of NATO membership, what makes Russia think they get a vote?
If you knew history, you wouldn’t need to ask that question. Finland made an agreement with Russia after WW II. In exchange for retaining their sovereignty, and not be swallowed up as a Soviet satellite, it agreed to remain neutral and join no military alliance, FOREVER. That’s why Russia has a vote. Of course, the vote is in spirit only.
Due to its close proximity, past history of participating in the Nazi invasion of Russia, and its promise to forever remain neutral, NATO membership would be a virtual death sentence for Finland should a larger war break out. Their people are absolutely clueless to the implications. As a NATO member, they would instantly become numero uno target for annihilation, while the Russians have guaranteed Finland’s immunity to Russian military action, so long as they remain neutral, and that agreement has been honored by the Russians for 70 years.
Finland would be crazy to join NATO, and they have nothing to gain, and everything to lose.
300k cannon fodder Russian soldiers coming soon to Ukraine…hell some look middle age…no joke..imagine if Georgia decides to not let Russians in the country anymore and so do the rest of neighboring countries. This will create a border crisis with Russian citizens stuck at the border.
I can see Russia soldiers deserting their posts or infantry/ brigades in big numbers or surrendering to the Ukraines voluntarily than die needlessly in this war.
Ukraine Defense Ministry: Russian men are actively googling how to avoid mobilization and stay alive. They would’ve been better off googling instructions for making Molotov cocktails when there was still time.
Brace for another slab of bitchute dumps all rolled in a nice breading of angry demented ranting. Summary preview - You're idiots, Russia's great, America's bad, I know everything, I hate you all and the moon is made of green cheese and you can't prove it isn't. PS - You're lunatics.
This is possibly the most accurate analysis I've read in this thread over the last several weeks. Spot on. Wish I could rep you again.
If you knew history, you wouldn’t need to ask that question. Finland made an agreement with Russia after WW II. In exchange for retaining their sovereignty, and not be swallowed up as a Soviet satellite, it agreed to remain neutral and join no military alliance, FOREVER. That’s why Russia has a vote. Of course, the vote is in spirit only.
Due to its close proximity, past history of participating in the Nazi invasion of Russia, and its promise to forever remain neutral, NATO membership would be a virtual death sentence for Finland should a larger war break out. Their people are absolutely clueless to the implications. As a NATO member, they would instantly become numero uno target for annihilation, while the Russians have guaranteed Finland’s immunity to Russian military action, so long as they remain neutral, and that agreement has been honored by the Russians for 70 years.
Finland would be crazy to join NATO, and they have nothing to gain, and everything to lose.
Any deal Finland may have made after WWII was with the Soviet Union, not Russia. The USSR is gone.
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Following the demise of the Soviet Union in 1991, Finland moved to end the old mutual defense agreement. A new agreement was reached with Russia in 1992, in which the two countries simply pledged to settle disputes between them peacefully. Finland, now freed from any restrictions, applied for membership to the European Community (from 1993 the European Union [EU]), which it joined in 1995. In 1999 it adopted the euro, the common currency of the EU, phasing out its markka by 2002. Despite shifting much of its foreign trade to EU nations, Finland’s relationship with Russia remained pivotal if precarious.
Figure that 1/3 of these Russian men will die or come home maimed. It could go higher as they are untrained, undisciplined, unmovitated and equpped with little but small arms - basically cannon fodder facing superior weapons and forces. 100,000. Maybe 300,000.
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