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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.72%
No 256 50.59%
Unsure 49 9.68%
Voters: 506. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-24-2022, 11:10 AM
 
8,992 posts, read 11,880,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
If Russia introduces unconventional weapons into this war....NATO will finish it.
Nah, NATO has been a coward from the beginning. They are not gonna do anything. If they had any balls at all, they would have staged troops in Ukraine when Russia was amassing their troops at the border. If they didn't do that, then they could have at least sent heavy weapons to Ukraine before the invasion started.

The invasion was inevitable. They had the intelligence. They chose to appease Putin instead.

First, "we won't send troops to Ukraine. Please Mr. Putin, just leave Ukraine alone won't you please.".

Then, "we only send Ukraine defensive weapons. Please Mr. Putin, don't be mad."

Now, "we will send Ukraine some weapons, but Ukraine can not strike Russia with these weapons."

In what universe do we live in when one country can attack the neighboring country but the neighboring can not attack back?

The result of all these appeasements is that the bully Putin is emboldened to commit more atrocities because he knows he can get away with it.
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Old 09-24-2022, 11:12 AM
bu2
 
24,241 posts, read 15,080,406 times
Reputation: 13110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
That is just silly. There is no tire shortage in Russia. However there is a predicted shortage of winter tires in Europe due to lack of Russian imports.



Alert_ A major shortage of winter tires is expected this year – leading to higher prices
You don't remember why they had that 40 mile traffic jam from Belorus early in the war? Flat tires. Broken down trucks.
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Old 09-24-2022, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Danville, VA
7,202 posts, read 6,910,989 times
Reputation: 4860
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Well they also need decent tires and spare parts for the trucks. Which with sanctions, they don't and won't have. Their logistics problem is going to get worse and worse. AK47s and soldiers with 2 weeks of training doesn't lead to success.
Speaking of Russian logistics, Putin just fired the deputy defence minister in charge of logistics, Gen. Dmitry Bulgakov.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63021117

I wonder how long it'll be before Bulgakov slips and falls out of a window...
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Old 09-24-2022, 11:14 AM
bu2
 
24,241 posts, read 15,080,406 times
Reputation: 13110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
And even with that help, which is not nearly enough, the Ukraine has only been able to reclaim a small amount of land mostly in the center of the country, where Russia had logistical problems.

The world knew almost a year in advance what Russia intended to do, but did nothing to provide the Ukraine with weapons. We didn't start providing them with weapons until after they were invaded, and we are still not providing them with the best weapons.
Ukraine has taken back half of what Russia gained in the first few weeks of the war.

They may well be able to drive Russia from the rest. But it looks like neither side is likely to have major movement soon.
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Old 09-24-2022, 11:21 AM
 
19,248 posts, read 27,909,590 times
Reputation: 20347
Telegram canal sources:

#Layout #Rumors
Now bad rumors are coming for the Office of the President. (of the Ukraine)
Our source reports that there is a circular global bargaining. It is not for nothing that Scholz flew to the Middle East today, where he met with the Saudis, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar. It is they who are now mediators in the Ukrainian crisis.
Also, a change in the rhetoric of the EU government, which began to declare that a diplomatic solution is needed that would suit all parties to the conflict. That is, there is no rigid thesis that Ukraine is within the borders of 1991, but a compromise solution.

You can't give it away, you can freeze it.
The source explains that this phrase refers to the fact that de facto Putin will be given these territories of Ukraine, where referendums are now taking place, and they will try to freeze the conflict, but de jure the world does not recognize referendums, but no one cares about these recognitions.
Europeans can ban Zelensky behind the scenes from shelling these territories after they become part of Russia, so as not to provoke an intensification of the war.
It is the EU that seeks to freeze the conflict, otherwise they will be “kaput”. On the contrary, the United States and Britain are interested in raising rates (https://t.me/legitimniy/13518), because all industrial giants are leaving the EU, their fiat system (Euro) is falling, and the dollar and America are only getting stronger, and Biden is facing the Ukrainian crisis is needed at the time of the elections, which means that the negotiation process will fail, we insided it (https://t.me/legitimniy/12054) back in May.

In general, for Ukraine, all scenarios are either bad, or very bad, or terrible. No one has drawn conclusions since 2014 (https://t.me/ZE_kartel/5989), has not realized that we are just a tool in the hands of big geopolitical players. Therefore, Ukraine continues to lose people and territories.

Telegram (https://t.me/legitimniy/13518)
Legitimate
#Layout
—-------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------

Why a peaceful solution in Ukraine is IMPOSSIBLE.

Today, the head of European diplomacy, Josep Borel, said in his opinion a very wise thought:

"We need a diplomatic solution to the conflict, which will suit both sides."

Apparently, "dzuzhi" completely lost his memory. With the Nazi regime settled in Kyiv, there were already two agreements that, at the time of their conclusion, satisfied both sides. They were called "Minsk-1" and "Minsk-2".

But they satisfied Kyiv exactly until the moment when the “pill”, which they received for the first time in August 2014, and the second in February 2015, did not heal, and they began to consider themselves strong enough to wipe themselves with all these agreements .

It's time to understand that there are no lasting agreements with the Nazis (just remember Munich 1938). All agreements that are concluded with them are not worth a penny, and are carried out exactly until the moment when it seems to them that they have become strong enough to wipe themselves with them.
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -----------------

War in Ukraine (09/23 - 09/24/22) - Battle for Krasny Liman

(LIGHT VERSION)

Judging by the information of the last two days, the enemy decided on a big offensive in the area of ​​​​Krasny Liman-Kupyansk on Svatovo, and for the second day trying to break through our defenses here. But ... it runs into the steadfastness of the Terek-Kuban-Don volunteers and the "steel divisions" of the 20th Army.

Link to the original source on RUTUB: https://rutube.ru/video/8f40025ae3ef7964e4ef07da1ced4629/

-------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation held a meeting with military commissars, at which the military registration and enlistment offices were reprimanded for serving summonses to everyone in a row and for negligence - a source of Readovka

According to a source of Readovka, today in the first half of the day the Ministry of Defense held a general meeting on Frunzenskaya with military commissars of all Russian regions. It discussed the issues of excesses (https://t.me/readovkanews/42421) when calling up citizens for service as part of partial mobilization.

Particular attention at the meeting was paid to the fact that in many places agendas are handed out to everyone in a row - when mailing summonses, age, disability and other statuses of those called up are not taken into account. All this is happening contrary to the official explanations of the Ministry of Defense, the ministry noted.

The military commissars were instructed to immediately put this process in order within a tight deadline, and all those involved were threatened with dismissal.
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ----------
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Old 09-24-2022, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,817 posts, read 2,761,018 times
Reputation: 3388
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Nah, NATO has been a coward from the beginning. They are not gonna do anything. If they had any balls at all, they would have staged troops in Ukraine when Russia was amassing their troops at the border. If they didn't do that, then they could have at least sent heavy weapons to Ukraine before the invasion started.

The invasion was inevitable. They had the intelligence. They chose to appease Putin instead.

First, "we won't send troops to Ukraine. Please Mr. Putin, just leave Ukraine alone won't you please.".

Then, "we only send Ukraine defensive weapons. Please Mr. Putin, don't be mad."

Now, "we will send Ukraine some weapons, but Ukraine can not strike Russia with these weapons."

In what universe do we live in when one country can attack the neighboring country but the neighboring can not attack back?

The result of all these appeasements is that the bully Putin is emboldened to commit more atrocities because he knows he can get away with it.
The other side of that argument is that Putin would have already lobbed a tactical nuke or some chemical munitions in that theater but he hasn't because of the threat NATO/US poses. I agree NATO and the US should have had a much stronger posture on the outset of the war.....but this really is a red line that I think neither side wants to see the other side of. Either the world blows up or Russia is forever isolated including China and India. I do believe it would provoke a massive massive conventional response from NATO. It has to, that is simply a precedent that cannot be established.
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Old 09-24-2022, 11:41 AM
 
Location: South Bay Native
16,225 posts, read 27,573,472 times
Reputation: 31497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
He makes a good point. The Ukrainians have been winning the logistic battle. But I'm pretty sure the Russians know that too, and are working on correcting their deficiency. Now they have the manpower to create the much needed supply lines, they need.

Everybody keeps saying that the Russians don't have enough weapons for this mass mobilization. But they already have enough weapons on the front. Their problem has not been a shortage of weapons, they have a logistical problem in getting supplies to the front lines. If they fix their logistics, it's not going to go well for the Ukraine.

This is a war of attrition and the Russians have enough men to win the war of attrition. And they are more than willing to sacrifice as many Russian lives as needed to achieve their objectives, at least for now. They have done it in the past, and they will probably do it again.

In the long run Russia has the means to defeat the Ukraine. But they can't beat NATO. NATO needs to get more involved in this war. If that happens it's game over for Russia. If not, I don't see a positive outcome for Ukraine.
Are you certain?

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarV...handed_rotten/

Those rotted and rusted guns would indicate otherwise.
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Old 09-24-2022, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,706 posts, read 5,596,941 times
Reputation: 8835
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Nah, NATO has been a coward from the beginning. They are not gonna do anything. If they had any balls at all, they would have staged troops in Ukraine when Russia was amassing their troops at the border. If they didn't do that, then they could have at least sent heavy weapons to Ukraine before the invasion started.

The invasion was inevitable. They had the intelligence. They chose to appease Putin instead.

First, "we won't send troops to Ukraine. Please Mr. Putin, just leave Ukraine alone won't you please.".

Then, "we only send Ukraine defensive weapons. Please Mr. Putin, don't be mad."

Now, "we will send Ukraine some weapons, but Ukraine can not strike Russia with these weapons."

In what universe do we live in when one country can attack the neighboring country but the neighboring can not attack back?

The result of all these appeasements is that the bully Putin is emboldened to commit more atrocities because he knows he can get away with it.
If NATO had sent troops and heavy weapons to Ukraine before the war, Putin would have been delighted. He could claim that as evidence that NATO was about to attack Russia and order general mobilization to defend the motherland. NATO viewed as the aggressor would have also resulted in fewer countries participating in sanctions against Russia.
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Old 09-24-2022, 11:47 AM
 
15,227 posts, read 8,748,433 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
This whole plan tells me a few things.

1. Putin does not have the stomach to take on the world over Ukraine. He is taking the path of very least resistance, the dead bodies of his undesirable country men. If you know anything about Russians... a lot of them are simply born to be cannon fodder.

2. Putin is doing this to keep the hard line conservatives happy (perhaps the reason for this war in the first place). But since it is an ultimately losing strategy... I believe he is using it to stall while he reaches out to the more moderate side.

3. I believe this call up is a stalling tactic while Putin gets the drop on the hardliners. And actually creates a more powerful resistance (where people were apathetic before) as it puts skin in the game of elite resistance people (sons of important russians).

If I can see that this move will not work, Putin can. He doesn't have to resort to nukes he has many other weapons at his disposal. Why would he choose a move that is very unlikely to work? Seems to me, one reason, to stall. If some of the worst of the worse of Russia get killed.. all the better. Sure he might not stay in power but I am sure they won't kill him. He looks on his last legs anyway.

If Putin really was a mad man he would just skip this mobilization and use WMD (which don't have to be nukes).

Personally I think he has been very restrained and the devil you know is better than the one you don't.
I agree with you last statement, none of the rest.

1) this has nothing to do with Putin having or not having the stomach to take on the world over Ukraine. This is a situation, years in the making, reaching the breaking point where Russia sees as a “now or never” moment in time. With NATO expansion continuing in spite of Russia’s objections, the Russians see the increasing expansion of hostile forces surrounding her as placing Russia in an increasingly weakened position, militarily, and worsening as time passes. This renders waiting no longer an acceptable defensive strategy. Ukraine marks that line in the sand. This is Russia, not just Putin, saying “this stops here. This is the hill Russia is willing to die on, are you?”

2) you do not know what’s going on inside Russia’s hierarchy, because neither you, nor anybody here seems to understand the situation on the outside, let alone inside Russia. Those within the military’s hierarchy understand the threat US-NATO represents, and also understand that diplomacy has failed, and the enemy surrounding them have no intention of reversing their policy, which is to render Russia impotent, militarily, defensively, and financially. It isn’t just the hardliners that see the writing on the wall.

3) by misjudging the situation entirely, you are filling in blanks by ad lib, that don’t actually exist. You can liken the situation to radical Islamic forces surrounding the Vatican. While they have not yet launched an attack, everyone knows what’s eventually going to happen. So, there is no longer the option of waiting to defend against attack, as the adversary continues to strengthen its positions around you, so the only option left is to launch a preemptive attack, while you still can. This is the situation Russia faces, in spite of all of this nonsense about NATO being a defensive military alliance whose purpose is to thwart Russian aggression. That’s pure nonsense, and everybody knows it, except the dumbed down, propagandized public who only know what CNN tells them they should know, which boils down to “Russia Bad”.
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Old 09-24-2022, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,184 posts, read 51,552,336 times
Reputation: 28466
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
The other side of that argument is that Putin would have already lobbed a tactical nuke or some chemical munitions in that theater but he hasn't because of the threat NATO/US poses. I agree NATO and the US should have had a much stronger posture on the outset of the war.....but this really is a red line that I think neither side wants to see the other side of. Either the world blows up or Russia is forever isolated including China and India. I do believe it would provoke a massive massive conventional response from NATO. It has to, that is simply a precedent that cannot be established.
Putin's next move: sarin gas. Will claim Ukraine did it to themselves. When that fails, blow up one of the reactors. Putin is a monster. NOTHING is off the table for him. The only way this stops is if Russians take him out and that is highly unlikely given that Russians in his orbit are no better than he is.
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