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And so what? Why shouldnt I have the right to deny business to anyone?
Remember the old signs "NO SHOES NO SHIRT NO SERVICE"?
"NO SHOES NO SERVICE" has nothing to do with it. We are a nation of laws, and if you're running a business, then you must abide by the law. If your state has laws against discrimination based on race or religion, then you can't discriminate based on race or religion. If there are laws against discrimination based on sexual orientation, then you can't discriminate based on sexual orientation.
Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
King James version:
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
King James version:
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Nobody, even most Conservatives I've talked to consider CARM a valid resource. You're just cherry picking some random website, even you don't understand. "Homosexual" was not added to 1 Corinthians 6:9 until the 1940s and there is no linguistic evidence it ever meant that. "Effeminate" in that verse comes from the Greek word that meant morally soft/weak. It doesn't mean displaying female characteristics. Most gay men are not Effeminate. You act like you're some pioneer, quoting Bible verses no one has ever seen. This has been rehashed thousands of times. Why are you quoting Leviticus, when you ignore 90% of the laws found in that book? Leviticus were ritual prohibitions for the Levite priesthood of the Israelites. Under Torah law, you yourself would be executed.
Private businesses who DO NOT TAKE TAX MONEY have the right to set their own policies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalehtor
"NO SHOES NO SERVICE" has nothing to do with it. We are a nation of laws, and if you're running a business, then you must abide by the law. If your state has laws against discrimination based on race or religion, then you can't discriminate based on race or religion. If there are laws against discrimination based on sexual orientation, then you can't discriminate based on sexual orientation.
so what is the Aramaic or hebrew word for homosexual?
Now you are tearing up the web cite? guess you can't argue the facts!
did you not look at the KJ version underneath it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
Nobody, even most Conservatives I've talked to consider CARM a valid resource. You're just cherry picking some random website, even you don't understand. "Homosexual" was not added to 1 Corinthians 6:9 until the 1940s and there is no linguistic evidence it ever meant that.
The government is not forcing any business to provide any service. Businesses are perfectly free to not provide wedding services. If a business chooses to provide wedding services, they can not discriminate on who they will provide those services to.
This I find worrying because in cases like the Huguenins in NM, these people were looking for harm, it just isn't their faith to participate in such activities. The gay couple could have just moved on to another photographer. I don't see this as an attack or hate against others. It seems nowadays, people who don't agree with gay marriage or any aspect of it is hateful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
And once again, there are over 2 billion Christians and 38,000 denominations. They don't all agree on that view, and it certainly isn't a valid (or legal) reason to discriminate in a secular country.
Gays are part of families too. I would think more Christians would encourage marriage among gays, for the sole reason that it promotes stability and safety. Gays aren't going to just turn straight, because gay marriage is illegal, nor can most humans commit to a life of celibacy.
I have gay co-workers who have been in a monogamous relationship with their partner for 20+ years, one of the couples sleeps in separate beds. They are far far far less promiscuous than any straight person/couple I know.
This ultimately boils down to one thing: Prejudice against an easy target. Gays are different. Most people can't relate to what gays go through and they live in a black and white world. It's easy to cherry pick a few multi-thousand year old legalistic Bible verses to condemn a group of people doing something you can't relate to and will never be guilty of committing yourself, while ignoring the multitude of one's own sins that are far more explicitly condemned in the Bible. And it causes demonstrable issues to a large group of humanity. God's not going to pat anyone on the back for causing pain and suffering among LGBT people.
So it's ok to force others to violate their own consciences in order to validate your re-definition of marriage?
So it's ok to force others to violate their own consciences in order to validate your re-definition of marriage?
They have every right to not have a same-sex marriage if it violates their conscience. That doesn't give them the right to tell other people they can't.
When interracial marriage bans were declared Unconstitutional, 80% of Americans opposed them. And yet, we re-defined marriage against their wishes. That's the way a Constitutional Republic works. Don't like it, move to a country that has a different method of governing.
so what is the Aramaic or hebrew word for homosexual?
There isn't one, since sexual orientation was not really a concept in Biblical days. You'll notice the Hebrew Bible NEVER mentions lesbians. The only prohibition on same-sex behavior, is in the context of pagan worship rituals among the Levite priesthood. Most of Judaism rejects the argument that the Hebrew Bible condemns modern day gay people.
Quote:
guess you can't argue the facts!
did you not look at the KJ version underneath it?
I demonstrated why those facts were wrong. You don't want to hear it, because you reject facts that challenge your beliefs. Effeminate does not mean gay. Most gays are masculine. The Greek word translated as "Effeminate" in the KJV, originally meant morally soft, and applied to a whole host of people most of which were heterosexual. You'd have to study the prevailing culture of Corinth at the time to understand Paul's view.
Private businesses who DO NOT TAKE TAX MONEY have the right to set their own policies.
The Supreme Court disagrees. Guess whose opinion actually matters?
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