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Please tell me about your medical education, pyschiatric residency, professional certifications in psychiatry, etc.
Are you disagreeing with me? Or are you just desperate to undermine my argument?
If you were scared for your life and someone was following you, would you stop, turn around, and start asking them why they are following you? If you were scared for your life, and there were people in buildings all around you, and/or you were literally 300 feet from your home, and you could easily outrun the guy following you, wouldn't you just run home? If you were scared for your life, and you had a cell phone, wouldn't you have called 911?
He did nothing that would indicate that he was scared. His girlfriend even told him to run home, Zimmerman even says he lost sight of Martin, but Martin said he would not run, but only walk fast.
So, do you really believe that Martin was scared?
Quote:
We do not know who threw the first punch! There are NO eyewitnesses to it that have come forward.
You are right, we have no idea who threw the first punch. What we do know is that Trayvon didn't appear to have been attacked(other than the gunshot wound), while Zimmerman had a swolen nose and cuts on the back of his head. It doesn't take a genius to figure out who was doing the attacking.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 04-30-2012 at 11:08 AM..
I'd guess that we're not going to be hearing much more in terms of evidence from either side now until an immunity hearing or trial. Even though discovery has started, I would think that neither side would find it very beneficial to put the details of their cases out to the public, especially such things as forensics reports. We already know that the autopsy findings will not be released. I think what will be in the court file will be lists of things turned over to the defense, but not the documents themselves. Maybe some information will come out in pre-trial hearings dealing with discovery issues, but I think we won't have much more info regarding specifics and how they fit together until trial or immunity hearing. Of course, I could be wrong.
They may not have a choice...there are all sorts of motions flying around from the media to unseal those documents, the court will be unable to stop the release, slow it down maybe and there are ways I'm sure to delay the uploading of documents, but not stop it...
IMO, morally and ethically the media needs to leave the redacted information containing personal information of witnesses out of the motions...
Edit: I do agree that "lists" of evidence may be entered into the court file as opposed to the actual documents...
Side note: The "Williams Rule" sounds pretty sketchy and difficult to prove relevancy, it's pretty transparent to me that it's a loophole created for the prosecution to slip in past bad acts, arrest records and criminal past...I wonder how often it has been successfully applied?...
Last edited by tiluha; 04-30-2012 at 12:03 PM..
Reason: added an additional comment
Are you disagreeing with me? Or are you just desperate to undermine my argument?
If you were scared for your life and someone was following you, would you stop, turn around, and start asking them why they are following you? If you were scared for your life, and there were people in buildings all around you, and/or you were literally 300 feet from your home, and you could easily outrun the guy following you, wouldn't you just run home? If you were scared for your life, and you had a cell phone, wouldn't you have called 911?
He did nothing that would indicate that he was scared. His girlfriend even told him to run home, Zimmerman even says he lost sight of Martin, but Martin said he would not run, but only walk fast.
So, do you really believe that Martin was scared?
You are right, we have no idea who threw the first punch. What we do know is that Trayvon didn't appear to have been attacked(other than the gunshot wound), while Zimmerman had a swolen nose and cuts on the back of his head. It doesn't take a genius to figure out who was doing the attacking.
Asking someone why they are following you neither indicates they are confident nor any other state of mind.
Yes, he would have been. He was not within his rights when he threw the first punch.
You don't know that he threw the first punch. That a disputed "fact" at this point, which is why there will be a trial, and a jury will be the finders of fact.
There is just not enough evidence released at this point to intelligently argue this issue.
However, you could say IF he threw the first punch, then I believe (whatever your opinion may be about the issue IF the info you assume to be factual were an undisputed fact)
You don't know that he threw the first punch. That a disputed "fact" at this point, which is why there will be a trial, and a jury will be the finders of fact.
There is just not enough evidence released at this point to intelligently argue this issue.
However, you could say IF he threw the first punch, then I believe (whatever your opinion may be about the issue IF the info you assume to be factual were an undisputed fact)
The Jury isn't the finders of fact, they look at AVAILABLE facts as evidence to reach their verdict.
I'm not saying someone can be shot for asking why are you following me. But, that isn't what happened anyway.
This is what happened. Trayvon was walking through the neighborhood in which he was living at the time, Zimmerman didn't recognize him and was concerned that he might be there to steal something, so Zimmerman followed Trayvon, Trayvon saw Zimmerman following him and at some point asked Zimmerman why he was following him, Zimmerman then asked Trayvon what he was doing there, they then repeated the questions to each other instead of answering each other, and at some point Trayvon ended up punching Zimmerman in the face, knocking him down, and jumping on top of him, at which time Zimmerman shot Trayvon.
Can you agree with me, that that is what happened?
The above is NOT actually what happened. It's your perspective based on what you've read in the media. Whether or not Martin was actually on top of Zimmerman is a disputed fact at this point. Zimmerman says he was, and obviously the state is not in complete agreement with Zimmerman's statement. That's why we have jury trials. Someone is charged with a crime and there are DISPUTED FACTS and ultimately a jury will determine what the facts are BASED ON THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED BY BOTH SIDES at trial.
The above is NOT actually what happened. It's your perspective based on what you've read in the media. Whether or not Martin was actually on top of Zimmerman is a disputed fact at this point. Zimmerman says he was, and obviously the state is not in complete agreement with Zimmerman's statement. That's why we have jury trials. Someone is charged with a crime and there are DISPUTED FACTS and ultimately a jury will determine what the facts are BASED ON THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED BY BOTH SIDES at trial.
Again, the jury doesn't determine evidence to be facts or not, they are not detectives and are not researching the case. They look at available evidence and decide if there is a shadow of a doubt raised or not in order to come to a guilty or not guilty verdict. The jury has NO IDEA what is true and what is not. Look what happened in the Casey Anthony case, the jurors actually found it plausible that they were covering up a drowning with ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS WHATSOEVER TO BACK THAT.
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Of course, I could be wrong.
