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It's interesting that no one responded or tried to rebut your post. They can't because your logic is flawless, plus you're a woman who actually had 4 kids.
What's sad is many men DO support a woman's right to have an abortion, and when those men ask for a similar opt-out, they get "life's not fair" in return. It's hypocritical to say you're pro-choice and for equality, and then advocate for taking equal choice away via preventing a male opt-out legally/financially (I'm not for forced abortions). At least pro-lifers are intellectually consistent, since they tell both sides to suck it up.
What's also sad is those who say "get a vasectomy" or "wear a condom" aren't telling the woman to "tie her tubes" or "wear a female condom". It's a clear double standard.
This is a no win argument because people are too emotional about it to engage in an honest debate. Only 3 women in this thread even support the idea of a man opting out. It's very similar to a previous thread I posted where I tried to initiate an honest effort to seek a compromise that made everyone happy, but the knives and personal attacks still came out. Most didn't even CONSIDER potential plans for compromise, and they aren't in this thread, either.
Guys having sex out there, pay attention to the majority's double standards here and please discuss this topic with women you're having sex with. It's not just a double standard in the internet world.
Oh please, how many times have you heard men say if a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she should just "keep her legs closed"?
Guess that one works for men too......"just keep it in your pants".
Oh please, how many times have you heard men say if a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she should just "keep her legs closed"?
Guess that one works for men too......"just keep it in your pants".
Good morning,
A small minority is saying that in this thread and it's mostly as devil's advocate to the "wear a condom, keep it in your pants" crowd. Most men in this thread support women's ability to obtain an abortion. Regardless, whether a person says this or not, does not change the fact that one party has zero options after conception, while the other has multiple.
It's interesting that you only responded to one point out of all of the ones I raised in that post.
This is not about a gender tit for tat, I'm really hoping to find a solution that will make things more fair for everyone.
A small minority is saying that in this thread and it's mostly as devil's advocate to the "wear a condom, keep it in your pants" crowd. Most men in this thread support women's ability to obtain an abortion. Regardless, whether a person says this or not, does not change the fact that one party has zero options after conception, while the other has multiple.
It's interesting that you only responded to one point out of all of the ones I raised in that post.
This is not about a gender tit for tat, I'm really hoping to find a solution that will make things more fair for everyone.
listen, she is gloating because the rules are bent in her favor and she knows it.
it's not worth arguing with HER over, go complain to your congressman or something.
If a female doesn't want the responsibility/financial stress that goes along with parenthood, she can get an abortion and never look back. Even if the male wants to keep the baby, the female has the power to get an abortion.
So why do the males get no say? If a female can just walk away from the responsibility if she doesn't want a baby, a male should be able to do the same thing.
If the female wants to keep the baby but the male doesn't, the male gets stuck paying child support.
In both examples, one parent wants to keep the baby. So why does the male get stuck paying for a baby he doesn't want?
Of course the male can't get an abortion. But I don't think the male should need to pay child support for a baby he doesn't want.
Sure, you might be thinking "The male helped create the baby. If the female wants to keep it, the male should pay"
But it takes two to tango. Both parents played an equal role in creating the baby. So if the male can't force the female to pay, why should the female be able to force the male to pay?
By the way, I am pro-choice. I support abortion and I don't see anything wrong with a female getting an abortion if she doesn't want to pay for a baby. But if a male doesn't want to pay for a baby, he shouldn't need to either.
Actually, a male can sign all rights away to the baby and be free of any responsibility, financial or otherwise.
This proves once again why the decision regarding abortion lies with the one who carries the biggest burden, in most cases, the female.
You men just do not get it, and you won't get ever fully get it until you are subject to getting pregnant, nine months of life altering period, and the remainder of your life as a parent. It doesn't magically stop when they turn 18, so it's an important decision to make whether one commits to that baby. It's for life.
When are you male control freaks going to realize this is an issue for the women and only the women? Males have no say because he should not have any say. For males to have a say leads to the return of male domination of an individual woman's right to decide what is going to happen to her own body. That body is hers and not the any males including the one that impregnated her.
When are you male control freaks going to realize this is an issue for the women and only the women? Males have no say because he should not have any say. For males to have a say leads to the return of male domination of an individual woman's right to decide what is going to happen to her own body. That body is hers and not the any males including the one that impregnated her.
HER FREEDOM AND HER CHOICE AND NOT OURS.
yeah i'm still not quite sold on this line of thinking. While a woman is pregnant, her body becomes both her body, and the body of the child, does it not?
who is advocating "male domination of an individual woman's rights." We are not talking about an individual woman here. We are talking about a pregnant woman.
The fetus is a potential child but the woman is an existing individual that happens to be pregnant. To stay pregnant or not is HER CHOICE.
If I were female I would insist on the right to control my own body for my own reason. As I am male I will not put restrictions on anyone else that I would not tolerate being placed on me.
Actually, a male can sign all rights away to the baby and be free of any responsibility, financial or otherwise.
Good morning,
Actually, this is NOT true. Usually a judge (and many times the mother) has to consent for him to sign his parental rights away.
If men could sign their parental rights away, I would not involved in this debate, except to criticize those who "change their mind" and signed it away after the birth. I'm not for that at all, men and women should have an equal opt out period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke
This proves once again why the decision regarding abortion lies with the one who carries the biggest burden, in most cases, the female.
Most in this thread are fine with the woman having 100% final decision in regards to abortion or having the child. That is not the issue in this thread. The issue is the man being able to opt out legally without the mother's consent. The mother should accept the responsibility of her choice and raise the baby on her own if she chooses not to have an abortion. Of course if the man wants to be involved, they should raise the baby together, but we're talking about men who do not want the baby in this thread.
If one person is able to make the choice without the other's consent, that one person should have to accept the full responsibility if the other party doesn't want to be involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke
You men just do not get it, and you won't get ever fully get it until you are subject to getting pregnant, nine months of life altering period, and the remainder of your life as a parent. It doesn't magically stop when they turn 18, so it's an important decision to make whether one commits to that baby. It's for life.
If one party has the choice to opt out after conception, the other should as well. It's pretty straightforward. Using nine months is a red herring since it's a CHOICE to go through those nine months and become a parent. In fact, a woman with 4 kids has already debunked the whole pregnancy excuse and no one has responded to her yet.
I'm simply seeking that same choice for the one person to opt in or out without consent of the other.
The fetus is a potential child but the woman is an existing individual that happens to be pregnant. To stay pregnant or not is HER CHOICE.
If I were female I would insist on the right to control my own body for my own reason. As I am male I will not put restrictions on anyone else that I would not tolerate being placed on me.
Good morning,
No one is advocating for changing a woman's 100% choice to have an abortion or not. No one is talking about forced abortions here so the woman still has 100% control of her body. Nothing changes for her.
The issue here is the man having the option to sign over his parental rights without the mother or a judge's approval if she makes the decision to keep the baby.
For the most part, the woman ends up taking care of the child. If they aren't together, the woman does almost all of the work. Usually the man ends up paying. It can go either way though. Sometimes the woman ends up paying and the man ends up doing the raising. If it never went either way it would be unfair but because there are men raising kids and the woman is paying, it's not unfair just a very uneven percentage.
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