North Shore Connector: Positives (Pittsburgh, Arnold: credit card, school districts, transportation)

[pman]

hmm, maybe I'll contact the SEA about opening a bottle shop in the first floor of the garage. give new meaning to Tailgating
I suppose it's worth digging this out which would mean people could walk down to the T and go to station sq for free...it also means brian's dream of park n riders would happen since there's be no additional cost over and above parking (though one would imagine the SEA would have to help fund this)
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...#ixzz1DTpPZdLH
still, as then, I'm skeptical

[LEFT]With expanded free transit, Downtown workers could zip to the growing North Shore entertainment area for lunch, Beattie said. Convention-goers and other visitors could travel easily from their hotels to South Side restaurants, PNC Park or the casino, she said

[/LEFT]
why would you want to "zip" to the north shore for lunch? if anything, the opposite might happen, people going downtown for better options or to pick something up at macy's (for example). I do think reducing the rate is a good idea. rather than free, $1 to station sq, etc. $3 is a bit steep. particularly from downtown since it's not that long of a walk...and the real utility would be north shore to station sq, or downtown to the casino

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa

I guess I don't see the real advantage to taking the T to a Pirates game over just walking over the bridge. I suppose South Hills People could just take the T all the way up, but the people that are going to do that are probably taking it already.

You are talking about 1/2 mile from the Downtown T stations to PNC Park. I'd have no problem doing that, but that is right in the range where the number of people willing to do such a walk from a transit station is going down fairly rapidly.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

it doesn't need to exist to draw up an operating plan.

Right. I was just confused about the idea of using "the current operating schedule". One way or another, they have to be relying on some plan for the future operating schedule. But if that is what you mean by the "current operating schedule" (meaning the current plan for future NSC service levels), then I think I now understand what you have been saying (more below).

you have to be careful with team claims I'd imagine.

As an aside, and just to be clear, that was a PAT claim.

what I'm saying is, compare the capital and operating subsidy for a new garage to what might be require to move the needle on increasing the number of transit (not just T, buses if need be) users. more transit users equals fewer spaces needed.

I think we have been talking about different things. If I understand you now, you are suggesting that whatever PAT's current NSC service plan may be, maybe they should be planning to increase gameday service further to reduce the peak parking need.

That sounds like something worth considering, but to my knowledge PAT is not a party to the North Shore development plan, and they are already concerned about new operating costs arising from the NSC. In fact, I think we have discussed before that PAT has been seeking private subsidies in order to offer more NSC service. So I suspect that is how your proposal would have to work--the North Shore parties would have to be willing to pay PAT to increase service levels, although I agree that in theory they should be willing to do that if providing more peak parking would be more costly.

Edit: Speak of the devil--your subsequent post/article was all about this.

those are both bad reasons not to develop land though, since those days are very few and lack of development impacts most of the year, every year.

I absolutely agree, but the problem is all this goes back to the original stadium deals, which included these side deals relating to development and parking. That's just one more form that public subsidies of the stadiums took.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

You are talking about 1/2 mile from the Downtown T stations to PNC Park. I'd have no problem doing that, but that is right in the range where the number of people willing to do such a walk from a transit station is going down fairly rapidly.

It is sad, but true. Most feel an 11 minute walk isn't even doable.

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

It is sad, but true. Most feel an 11 minute walk isn't even doable.

Yeah, I guess. To me, I'd much rather just walk than wait the same amount of time for the stupid train to get there. The exceptions are the bad weather or physical issues.

[nuwaver88]

This will help the casino. Steel Plaza station, which is right across the street from the William Penn Hotel, is about a mile from the new Allegheny Station by Heinz Field. From there, it is a five minute walk to Rivers Casino.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa

Yeah, I guess. To me, I'd much rather just walk than wait the same amount of time for the stupid train to get there. The exceptions are the bad weather or physical issues.

I don't want to make excuses, but another potential issue is just lack of familiarity--people typically don't like taking longer walks if they don't already know an area, and this is probably particularly relevant in this case since a decent number of the attendees may have had little if any prior experience with Downtown.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by nuwaver88

This will help the casino. Steel Plaza station, which is right across the street from the William Penn Hotel, is about a mile from the new Allegheny Station by Heinz Field. From there, it is a five minute walk to Rivers Casino.

Yeah, obviously the farther you go down the North Shore, but still stay within range of the last station, the more people will find this an attractive addition. I could also see it impacting the Science Center for the same reason--families from the South Hills now have a fun way to get right there.

[pman]

Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa

Yeah, I guess. To me, I'd much rather just walk than wait the same amount of time for the stupid train to get there. The exceptions are the bad weather or physical issues.

you're not alone. if it runs every five minutes, you're more likely to walk there than for every 15...may as well wait for the every 15 bus. ruyle of thumb is hat time feels about 3x's longer when you're waiting. my own personale feeling is that it's shorter when you are below ground in a station, even shorter in nice weather, and much longer when it's cold and windy on a street corner.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

As an aside, and just to be clear, that was a PAT claim.
I think we have been talking about different things. If I understand you now, you are suggesting that whatever PAT's current NSC service plan may be, maybe they should be planning to increase gameday service further to reduce the peak parking need. So I suspect that is how your proposal would have to work--the North Shore parties would have to be willing to pay PAT to increase service levels, although I agree that in theory they should be willing to do that if providing more peak parking would be more costly.

I mean the stadiums claims about parking needs. thy will tend to be overly conservative..esp if they don't gain much from development. anyway, yes, I think the SEA should have PAT look at ways to increase transit share for game days (particularly steelers or days when both play)...and how much that would cost...and perhaps be willing to pay if it allows to move forward with development and still provide the same access a less cost than parking.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I absolutely agree, but the problem is all this goes back to the original stadium deals, which included these side deals relating to development and parking. That's just one more form that public subsidies of the stadiums took.

true enough, at least the city has done a better job than philly (who already has better transit to the stadiums). only now are they building anything

[pman]

should be done in time for the pirates season opener agains the phils. I hope the city realizes that developing the north shore faster is vital to the success of the project. in that sense, they really need to take stabile's proposal seriously
$523 million connector rolls closer to completion - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

The net cost of the system is expected to be $1 million a year, once expenses and revenues are factored in, officials said. It remains unclear whether passengers will have to pay a fare or the extension will be part of the Downtown no-fare zone. Authority officials have been looking for a private sponsor to help make no-fare trips possible.