North Shore Connector (Pittsburgh, Oakland, Portland: buying, construction, maintenance)

[bboy36win]

What do you think of the North Shore Connector? Is this a good idea??? Will it be impacted by the Port Authority's recent proposed route reductions?

[Drover]

I think it's a monumnental waste of resources and the perfect illustration of the misallocation of resources that has helped stifle growth in the region. It seems to me that one of the most common-sense mantras of public transportation systems is SECURE THE MAINTENANCE OF EXISTING SERVICE before expanding and creating additional service. I don't understand why that's such a hard concept to grasp.

Here in Chicago the CTA is spending $700,000,000 to expand the capacity of one line by 25%. Meanwhile, the rest of the train system on the North side is in such a state of disrepair that they have had to create "slow zones" because the track, structure, or both are so decayed that it is not safe for trains to travel at full speed. The result is that commutes that are supposed to take half an hour now take 50 minutes; commutes that are supposed to take 45 minutes are now well over an hour. They estimate it will cost several BILLION dollars just to repair the existing lines, and what are they doing? Spending seven hundred million dollars to increase the capacity of one line from six cars to eight. A lot of good those extra two cars per train are going to do when they're creeping toward downtown at 15 miles an hour on rotting tracks and ancient switching systems.

This North Shore connector strikes me as the Pittsburgh version of the Chicago CTA mess.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

I do not think it is a waste if there are plans to extend the system north (along the river towards the airport, north along mcknight, etc...). Still, there was a more pressing need for the light rail east through Oakland, Sq. Hill, and past the Squirrel Hill tunnel. If what is currently planned is the extent of the project, I believe it is somewhat of a waste.

[sealerpal]

I agree with Drover, but want to add my own point as well. Pittsburgh is so small that the state of public transportation really isn't much of an issue anymore. The public transportation system in all of it's forms has downsized very
slowly in this area over the years, and people have simply adapted. Most people have cars in Pittsburgh proper, and the elderly either have solid rides they can depend on or use Veteran's Cab Co.

One cool PT idea that was smashed by Pittsburgh was the mag-lev. That would have been neat.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by trlstreet

I do not think it is a waste if there are plans to extend the system north (along the river towards the airport, north along mcknight, etc...). Still, there was a more pressing need for the light rail east through Oakland, Sq. Hill, and past the Squirrel Hill tunnel. If what is currently planned is the extent of the project, I believe it is somewhat of a waste.

Exactly. There are two major bottlenecks entering Pittsburgh: from the West and from the East. So where do they decide to put the connector? In the one entry point into downtown where traffic is relatively free-flowing. Not to mention that anyone who rides the T into downtown can walk from the terminal station to the North Shore in minutes. Why do we need a 500 million dollar tunnel (my guess is it will be closer to 800 million by the time all the cost overruns are factored in) to shuttle people across the river, and probably in no less time than it would take for them to just walk by the time they stand around the station waiting for a train?

Of course, they say there are plans to extend the system north "some day." That strikes me as an ad-hoc justification and I'm not buying it. If I'm still alive 50 years from now, I'll die of a heart attack if they've actually extended the North Shore connector all the way to the airport.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

I also think it was short-sided to put money into what is essentially a commuter lot. Yes, it will see use for the stadiums, but the majority of ridership will most likely be commuters parking on the north shore and taking the t into downtown. Isn't the purpose of a good transit system to eliminate the need for cars altogether for a large portion of the population? This seems like a fancy, expensive shuttle lot.

If Pittsburgh is really so similar to Portland (as I always seem to hear), then we need to take a close look at their very successful light rail system.

[bboy36win]

Well then it looks like I'm not the only one that can't make sense of this one.

[stevo6]

Originally Posted by Drover

I think it's a monumnental waste of resources and the perfect illustration of the misallocation of resources that has helped stifle growth in the region. It seems to me that one of the most common-sense mantras of public transportation systems is SECURE THE MAINTENANCE OF EXISTING SERVICE before expanding and creating additional service. I don't understand why that's such a hard concept to grasp.

First, there is no money in the "operations budget" to fix what they've got, so in order to increase revenue they have to increase ridership. Theoretically, extensions to the east (Oakland) and to the West (Northshore and ultimately the airport) will do this. Oakland seems like a slam dunk until you realize the cost of putting rail into such a dense area. So they started with the Western expansion. Now you add in the fact that the majority of the cost will be born by the federal government- thats hundreds of millions of $ that would otherwise go to another city - and it starts to make more sense. The federal money is for construction only, not operations. And operationally, the cost per mile (lets say) goes down as the system gets larger.

No, I think the expansion to the North Shore makes some sense. There are a lot of other things going on at the Port that don't . I don't think the new garage at South Hills Village made a lot of sense, and I know the overhead costs at the Port make no sense. The system routes and schedules don't seem very efficient either. I think with the new leadership, they will get things right- we're already seeing them take drastic measures to reduce their overhead costs.

Dang if I can figure out this quote thing......

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by stevo6

Dang if I can figure out this quote thing......

Where your end quote has only QUOTE] it should have [/ in front of it.

Like this: [ / q u o t e ] without the spaces.

[stevo6]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Where your end quote has only QUOTE] it should have [/ in front of it. .

Thanks Hopes!