North Shore Connector: Positives (Washington, Troy: universities, cost, rail)

[BrianTH]

By the way, it wasn't "bureaucrats" so much as a series of calculated decisions by politicians.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

By the way, it wasn't "bureaucrats" so much as a series of calculated decisions by politicians.

I was reading some of chris briems posts on the subject and it's history dating back to 1923...how depressing. I thought it was just me that it appeared the T is basically part of the spine line with the south hills service tacked on but that's exactly what it is.
still, back in 1923 they were arguing that a tunnel was a better way to get to the north side than a bridge despite the larger costs, although they viewed federal st as a natural destination before heading to the ravine rather than a casino and a football stadium. the fact that the spine line was never built is probably the biggest single problem in transit today as it was estimated to carry as much as the system does today and save a good bit of money in operating costs. c'est la vie
there isn't any physical reason the tunnel couldn't still be used for a north side branch but the stations themselves appear unlikely to make much sense.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by pman

I was reading some of chris briems posts on the subject and it's history dating back to 1923...how depressing. I thought it was just me that it appeared the T is basically part of the spine line with the south hills service tacked on but that's exactly what it is.
still, back in 1923 they were arguing that a tunnel was a better way to get to the north side than a bridge despite the larger costs, although they viewed federal st as a natural destination before heading to the ravine rather than a casino and a football stadium. the fact that the spine line was never built is probably the biggest single problem in transit today as it was estimated to carry as much as the system does today and save a good bit of money in operating costs. c'est la vie
there isn't any physical reason the tunnel couldn't still be used for a north side branch but the stations themselves appear unlikely to make much sense.

I think it would have to be a Y shape if you want to get back to the Federal and North area. The line would split after the tunnel, with the last shared station being Gateway Center. Trying to branch from Heinz Field back to Federal & North area would be a lot more roundabout.

A Y-split with one side having 1 station and the other having 2 seems silly, but in the long term it could work out. Both branches would have plenty of destinations ahead of them for expansion.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

there isn't any physical reason the tunnel couldn't still be used for a north side branch but the stations themselves appear unlikely to make much sense.

My guess is that if it was ever going to happen, it would involve wrapping back around from Allegheny Station.

But I suspect if the North Side ever does get rapid transit, it will be through an entirely different approach.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

But I suspect if the North Side ever does get rapid transit, it will be through an entirely different approach.

Explain...

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Explain...

Well, one more unconventional (but I also think most practical) approach would be using aerial gondolas. Here's an example of how that could look:

Pittsburgh Gondola Proposal #1 - Google Maps

Of course a more conventional approach would be to use some form of BRT--e.g., you could take over one of the Three Sisters for dedicated bus lanes that would continue into the North Side.

I even think you could look at streetcars, although that is barely worth doing if they don't have dedicated lanes, and then there is not necessarily much advantage, if any, over a BRT approach.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

A Y-split with one side having 1 station and the other having 2 seems silly, but in the long term it could work out. Both branches would have plenty of destinations ahead of them for expansion.

and with the Y, the Federal Street line I would place it's PNC Park Station somewhere in the area of 222 bar so it's still accessible to PNC Park but doesn't directly compete with North Side Station.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Well, one more unconventional (but I also think most practical) approach would be using aerial gondolas. Here's an example of how that could look:

Pittsburgh Gondola Proposal #1 - Google Maps

Of course a more conventional approach would be to use some form of BRT--e.g., you could take over one of the Three Sisters for dedicated bus lanes that would continue into the North Side.

I even think you could look at streetcars, although that is barely worth doing if they don't have dedicated lanes, and then there is not necessarily much advantage, if any, over a BRT approach.

Seems weird for an aerial gondola to not even hit any of the neighborhoods that are naturally elevated. Troy Hill, Spring Hill, and Fineview are achingly close to that proposed line.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

My guess is that if it was ever going to happen, it would involve wrapping back around from Allegheny Station.

But I suspect if the North Side ever does get rapid transit, it will be through an entirely different approach.

while I don't doubt that, it probably would make more sense to bypass allegheny station for an extension of any distance. I think the aerial gondolas have a future in pittsburgh but not the central north side. Allegheny west could be well served by a T extension, the rest of the central north side just isn't that far (nor is the grade that great)to warrant more than a dedicated lane for a bus unless volume dicates. If I was Luke, I'd probably start the process on extending the T one more stop to north ave. the rest of the added utility would come with a connection to oakland.
as for "other approaches" there's the idea of using the former steubenville connection/convention spur to route trains to the north side (and the ravine). all in all, I'd bet a one stop extension of the existing T would be the best bet, and perhaps build a pedestrian connection to Allegheny center via martindale street since the garage isn't far as the crow flies.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

Seems weird for an aerial gondola to not even hit any of the neighborhoods that are naturally elevated. Troy Hill, Spring Hill, and Fineview are achingly close to that proposed line.

Although elevation changes are one thing gondolas handle well, they are equally adept at things like crossing rivers or going through areas without room for additional surface transportation. In other words, you don't need an elevation change to justify using the technology.

That said, such an extension off the flats of the North Side would very likely be worth doing. So the fact such an extension isn't on the map is basically a matter of me not being sure where exactly to go next, as opposed to me thinking I had reached a logical end point.