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Old 09-13-2011, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,596,767 times
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Deprograming; the battle to free your consciousness. This is the most worthy battle one would ever fight, those who find the " Courage to." Courage then is paramount in your effort to break free from a slave mentality. The wherewithall to unlock the chains that bind you yourself! The slave mentality ultimately will agree with its imprisioner and simply do like its told. A binding submission, it takes no courage to follow the leader of bondage.
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Old 09-13-2011, 01:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
Deprograming; the battle to free your consciousness. This is the most worthy battle one would ever fight, those who find the " Courage to." Courage then is paramount in your effort to break free from a slave mentality. The wherewithall to unlock the chains that bind you yourself! The slave mentality ultimately will agree with its imprisioner and simply do like its told. A binding submission, it takes no courage to follow the leader of bondage.
I think the logical order , then, would be :

1. A person recognizes the truth (including all possible inherent deceptions and falsities associated with what they have found themselves believing, trusting in, and following) . , whether it be an ideology, philosophy, or abberant teaching , poor lifestyle choice, poor choice in general , etc....

2. They then practice the willful act of fortitude and courage (which may involve swallowing their pride from having been duped into the ensnarement for such a long period of time) , and simply choose to leave that which has proven to be toxic to themselves . Commit to walking away from it asap now they know it is and has been toxic.

3. Realize that they have a fallable nature within them that they cant always trust to be a good guiding compass ... as proven by THIS current toxic ensnarement in addition to past examples . Realize that its not best to lean on ones own understanding , even though we all would like to think we are quite capable of making sound decisions and occupy the wisdom to do so.

4. We therefore reach out to a higher power beyond ourselves , that being...our personal Creator who desires for us to have a personal relationship with him and to draw on his available strength and wisdom which he enjoys lavishing on us so we can avoid harm in our life , placing harm on others, and so obtain maximized fulfillment from a life lived in HIS control versus our control .

This is whats worked for me and many billions others ., and its available to all.
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Old 09-13-2011, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,596,767 times
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Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
I think the logical order , then, would be :

1. A person recognizes the truth (including all possible inherent deceptions and falsities associated with what they have found themselves believing, trusting in, and following) . , whether it be an ideology, philosophy, or abberant teaching , poor lifestyle choice, poor choice in general , etc....

2. They then practice the willful act of fortitude and courage (which may involve swallowing their pride from having been duped into the ensnarement for such a long period of time) , and simply choose to leave that which has proven to be toxic to themselves . Commit to walking away from it asap now they know it is and has been toxic.

3. Realize that they have a fallable nature within them that they cant always trust to be a good guiding compass ... as proven by THIS current toxic ensnarement in addition to past examples . Realize that its not best to lean on ones own understanding , even though we all would like to think we are quite capable of making sound decisions and occupy the wisdom to do so.

4. We therefore reach out to a higher power beyond ourselves , that being...our personal Creator who desires for us to have a personal relationship with him and to draw on his available strength and wisdom which he enjoys lavishing on us so we can avoid harm in our life , placing harm on others, and so obtain maximized fulfillment from a life lived in HIS control versus our control .

This is whats worked for me and many billions others ., and its available to all.

This is an excellent example of the withdrawal from sin for a believer in God.

The withdrawal from sin has one key componant; it is God who must first " Grant it to the human." Or they labor in vain if they walk on their own strength. Romans 2:4 then, :"Or do you think lightly of the riches of his kindness and forebearence and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God LEADS you to repentance?" Repentance is another term for reprograming.

It is God who must grant or lead a human in the withdrawal from sin, or they simply withdraw into another type of religious bondage.
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Old 09-13-2011, 02:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Not in the least, but perhaps I can bring you some needed clarification. It takes nothing to be an atheist. Rocks are atheist in that they do not believe in a god. Squirrels and bullfrogs (so far as the evidence indicates) atheist in that they do not have a belief in a god. Babies are born a-theist since they do not have a belief in a god - until it is taught them.

The questions they ask are reasonable curiosity questions and in no way are incompatible with atheism. In fact you show up your own flawed and inconsistent reasoning since, if we were born theist rather than atheist there would be no need of such questions. The answer would always be 'God dunnit'.

Your dodgy reasoning props itself up by performing a reverse leap of Faith from theism to cosmic or biological origins. With some ill informed rubbishing of any theory other than the non - explanation of goddunnit, you persuade yourself (since I doubt that you are persuading anyone else) that 'God' has to be the clear and obvious answer and thus in a twisty progress that make a maze look like a motorway, you have arrived where you want to - that God -talk is clear and evident truth and atheism is indoctrination.

Enjoy your triumph. Now hear this. Atheism doesn't say anything about cosmic or biological origins. All it needs to do is say 'nobody knows' and theism has no case or evidence. It is truly uninformed indoctrination.

To get back to a rational place that has to be subjected to deprogramming.
1. Did rocks (materialism) give us our non-material personality traits including reason, rationale, discernment, love, moral oughtness, etc... ? Is our 'Creator' a one celled pond protozoa which came from dead unpurposed chemicals in the atmosphere , to which 3 of the worlds foremost ATHEIST Scientists (DNA structure co-founder Dr. Francis Crick, Prof. Sir Fred Hoyle, and Prof. Chandra Wicksramaghe) calculate the probability at a faith-busting 1 in 10^40,000 power that the pond protozoa charade is true ? Proclaimed atheists dont have the faith required to be an atheist .

2. Babies dont have to be taught theism...every one of us between the age of 4-7 asked our Parent(s) how all this got here, how did i get here, and why is all this here...knowing full well , intrinsically, that it didnt happen to arrive via atheistic chance, accidents, luck, and time. Children GET indoctinated by GodLESS humanistic philosophies devised by mans fabrications such as an uncaused universe / life popping into existence from dead entities / and utterly no purpose to life (which even 'atheists' disqualify by the purposeful way they live) / and no absolute moral values except of course when the 'atheist' REacts to others treating them unfairly ... then all of a sudden they believe they were absolutely violated . So much for the impossibility of living out a true atheist life socially , in addition to the illogic of the affirmative worldview of atheistic naturalism . And just because someone says 'an atheist doesnt hold to a theistic Creator' , by default , they DO believe in a naturalistic providing source ., so please stop using that lame excuse to try to wiggle out of it (ANTI-supernaturalism = Naturalism) .

3. God dunnit because no natural means could . A child knows this and so does every adult regardless if they choose not to publicly admit it. The Universe declares the glory of a personal theistic Creator thru absolute precise design and engineering. And im always amused when atheists try so hard to hate Someone (as God) who they claim doesnt exist !. God is such an imposition to ones lifestyle choices, isnt he ? That mean ol' Oger spoiling our fun ................

4. Atheistic Secular Humanism says plenty about our origins ; only some atheists dont want to touch on its tenets of natrualism and materialism because its so easy to shoot down using just cursory logical and reason.

5. I enjoy my triumph over abandoning the enslavement of humanistic philosophies that enhance supreme narcissism .... making oneself god. And..you can escape from it too and enjoy REAL freedom .
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Old 09-13-2011, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,596,767 times
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Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post

1. Did rocks (materialism) give us our non-material personality traits including reason, rationale, discernment, love, moral oughtness, etc... .
It certainly didnot, couldnot. I am amazed at some evolutionist who still maintain the big bang theory, this incredible explosion which came from nothing, and then produced something. Since when has destructive explosion the ability to produce life? It destroys life if anything. Now certain evolutionist are seeing the absurdity of that, have backtracked, and are now claiming that evolution starts only after life starts; Translation; now they want us to give them first base, so they can continue to steal their way home.

This is classic consciousness bondage. But I think one needed to maintain a certain balance that God wanted to on this earth. He planned to save all, so he wanted a representation of all types of human beliefs to be saved from.
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Old 09-13-2011, 02:28 PM
 
2,994 posts, read 5,779,805 times
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Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
This is an excellent example of the withdrawal from sin for a believer in God.

The withdrawal from sin has one key componant; it is God who must first " Grant it to the human." Or they labor in vain if they walk on their own strength. Romans 2:4 then, :"Or do you think lightly of the riches of his kindness and forebearence and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God LEADS you to repentance?" Repentance is another term for reprograming.

It is God who must grant or lead a human in the withdrawal from sin, or they simply withdraw into another type of religious bondage.
God is so interested and concerned that everyone of us return to him for real life and purpose...that he is always at work trying to get our attention . He wants to displace the NON-purpose mindset that our culture infuses in us...with something that is the real dynamic thing . That being, knowing him on a personal level --- the ultimate purpose for our life. It starts with our willingness to give him an inch in our lives .
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Old 09-13-2011, 02:33 PM
 
2,994 posts, read 5,779,805 times
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Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
It certainly didnot, couldnot. I am amazed at some evolutionist who still maintain the big bang theory, this incredible explosion which came from nothing, and then produced something. Since when has destructive explosion the ability to produce life? It destroys life if anything. Now certain evolutionist are seeing the absurdity of that, have backtracked, and are now claiming that evolution starts only after life starts; Translation; now they want us to give them first base, so they can continue to steal their way home.

This is classic consciousness bondage. But I think one needed to maintain a certain balance that God wanted to on this earth. He planned to save all, so he wanted a representation of all types of human beliefs to be saved from.
There is absolutely no doubt that there is a very powerful Entity who represents evil ,that uses all available instruments to take people further away from God in an enslavement that appeals to our experiential senses . It is extremely easy to become a casualty to enslavement ...as it doesnt first to appear as enslavement, but, as a tender morsel of delight and titilating fun . It is the bait that captures so many and renders them lost .
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Old 09-13-2011, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,596,767 times
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Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
God is so interested and concerned that everyone of us return to him for real life and purpose...that he is always at work trying to get our attention . He wants to displace the NON-purpose mindset that our culture infuses in us...with something that is the real dynamic thing . That being, knowing him on a personal level --- the ultimate purpose for our life. It starts with our willingness to give him an inch in our lives .

I personally think it starts with " Him", installing that willingness; not we inititating it first. " Not that we are adequate ( or willing) in ourselves to consider anything as comming from ourselves ( or to consider that our will was what lead us to God) but our Adeqacy is from God." 2 Corinth. 3:5, It starts with Gods willingness to give the human consciousness the wherewithall to come to him.
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Old 09-13-2011, 03:25 PM
 
2,994 posts, read 5,779,805 times
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Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
I personally think it starts with " Him", installing that willingness; not we inititating it first. " Not that we are adequate ( or willing) in ourselves to consider anything as comming from ourselves ( or to consider that our will was what lead us to God) but our Adeqacy is from God." 2 Corinth. 3:5, It starts with Gods willingness to give the human consciousness the wherewithall to come to him.
Thru our immense and remarkable physical Creation, I believe he has already made his intentions known on a super large scale which no reasonable and rational person can deny. Yes, on a smaller personal scale, he visits his presence upon us even when we are still lavishing in our sinfilled lifestyles...except oftentimes we've built up such a thick wall of veneer that we are relegated to our enslavement. Hopefully, only for a time. God certainly plants the seed(s) in us, in expectation that we will acknowledge and respond to that appropriately. We are definitely made for a dynamic spiritual personal relationship with our Creator when you consider the reality of our immaterial Soul (mind, heart, emotions) --- yet we all have freewill choice to veto that too . Its amazing God is so patient with us -- i couldnt be .
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Old 09-13-2011, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,596,767 times
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Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post

yet we all have freewill choice to veto that too . Its amazing God is so patient with us -- i couldnt be .

This I disagree with, in my view, God cannot be reduced to veto by a human. When God opens a human, nothing in that human can reject him. When people reject God, its ONLY because he never opened them in the first place. Freewill is a limited illusion in my view, it only exist until God excerts his will into the picture; then all things change, there is no longer a choice, there is only his will.
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