Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well I thought that Atheism, and Secular Humanist were two seperate entities. This is the first time I have seen them combined, although they are very simular. But I have known many people who have deprogramed from Atheism; which I think is fine; yet my concern was where did they go from there? Did they jump into a religion, and if so which one? Because I consider many religions as far worse than Atheism.
Which brings up a vital aspect of reprograming; Where do you go from there?
Now if these people you refered to actually got into a real relationship with the Creator of the Universe, then I would say that it was that creator who helped them to do it.
Atheism and Secular Humanism are inseperable ; Secular Humanism doesnt recognize a personal theistic Creator for our personal highly designed and exquisitely engineered Cosmos so Earth can be our home , vis-a-vis , anti-supernaturalism .
We all come to the table with A FORM of religion in the sense that we all have an affirmative view for our Origins in addition to surrendering to particular lifestyle choices closely linked to our belief/lack of belief in a governing / authoratative / morally accouintable personal Creator . Dont you think ?
Just what do you do and where do you go after deprograming? Do you leave Atheism and go to 7th day Adventist? Do you leave the Klan and go to Christianity? Do you leave one romance and jump into another? Do you stop stealing and start check frauding? Do you leave sexual abuse and start overeating abuse? Do you stop gambling by chewing tabaco?
You NEVER deprogram by beginning another bondage. If you do, your just moving your habitual ways from one mannerism to another. I think there is only one exception to this, which even has its risk; I think its a good thing to get over a bad romance, by entering into a good one; IF its a good one.
People are bouncing in and out of religions like transfering from bus to bus. Jumping in and out of relationships so fast, that they find themselves with two people for awhile, until they " Get rid of the other." You walk away from belief in a God, for all kinds of reasons, to belief in nothing. You stop hating one thing, only to transfer that anger to another.
So there is a missing dimension in deprograming which makes it complette; when you withdraw, settle down into knowing yourself, understanding why you did what you did, before you do anythingelse.
I wouldnt call someone being DEprogrammed who then enters another realm of bondage ....as perhaps they are leaving for something that is the absolute truth --- which would make it a very wise and proper move. (?) And if that be the case, then it was a move out of enslavement into one of freedom .
Please explain to me how someone who does not believe in god is programmed....It doesn't work that way, it is the religious who are programmed, indoctrinated, brainwashed, or what ever you want to call it. It take no programming to be an atheist, just reason and logic.
Theres two parts to your post above :
1. Ones culture and Mass Media can be , and is, a programming Tool useful for indoctrination/brainwashing vis-a-vis from lifestyle philosophies to a Worldview and everything in between. It can delegate where we should shop, where we should eat, what we should eat, how we should dress, how we should behave / act / talk , as examples. To some extent, we are ALL influenced by our Culture and what becomes popular and the norm .
2. It takes distinct programming to be an Atheist since every child of about 4-6 asks their Parent(s) 'Where did we come from' / 'How did all this get here ' / ' Why are we here ' . Such inquiries would not come forth if everyone were an atheist from birth , for, there would be no reason to ask these questions with the child inherently knowing everything was just one cosmic accident. Yet they DO ask knowing full well even at a very tender age, that, there is far more to things appearing willy-nilly and for no purpose/uncaused . Further, when the child eventually gets into grade school, they are forcefed a plethera of THEORIES about our origins which include persuasive religious ideologies of a colorful portrait of dead chemicals burping forth a little airbrushed pond protozoa sea creature that the child can identify with. Of course, they want to place their entire trust in their teaching authorities including cartoon looking school books that youngsters find appealing...yet are too young and immature to question their content. Once the seed is firmly planted, it only gets futher solidified as they continue thru the school system ... all without even one competing view ... that being Intelligent Causes . Therefore, we end up with a populus that has naturally been brainwashed to thinking THEORIES are scientific fact while finding great disdain toward what is far more common sense / logic of a personal theistic Creator fashioning and sustaining the cosmos as scientifically verfiried by near incomprehensible forms of precise engineering and specific complexity via design. In fact, VERY few adults are even willing to take the time and energy to diligently look into this , as, they have succumbed to their personal inherent rebellion to live life as they deem fit (again, fueld by an apathetic culture centered on Self interests) ...in conjunction with the justification that amorality offers thru the (previous) indoctination of Natural Causes , accidents, and what non-purpose offers . Of course all of this is the recipe for immoral lifestyles leading to anarchy , as can be measured on many fronts (and in fact, the word 'immorality' has now become a defunct nullified term for Ones extra added pleasure) . Ergo, reason and logic arent really at the forefront of a Persons quest...but rather, the requirement of entitlement and freedom to live anyway one chooses ......... only its not at all 'freedom' , but deep enslavement masqueraded by conscious or unconcious willful deception. I say willful, because it requires a willful suppression of ones Moral Conscience ... a deliberate veto of reason/logic/morality/and good ethics in favor of 'the good life' . Hope this helps bring greater clarification.
Sounds like evidence of a weak, fearful, feeble mind.
Just stand on your own 2 feet and stop believing in fairy tales.
It depends largely on just WHAT IS the fairy tale, doesnt it ? And...whether One is so willfully engrained in it that they couldnt break free perhaps due to pride , its addictive lure, and the alleged 'freedom' it is bringing. Hmmmm...
All this means is that preschool children do not have a grasp on science. It doesn't mean that their reptilian brains demand a deity.
Furthermore, scientific theories do not describe the universe as a cosmic accident. This is deliberately false propaganda spewed by religious people in an effort to recruit more followers and sell more T-shirts.
1. They may not have a grasp on science yet, but, they do have the inherent grasp on what is required for remarkable reality , high complexity , and knowing full well things dont pop into existence willy nilly, naturally (as atheistic thought requires) .
2. Then if the universe was caused ...complete with the many accompanying Physics Constants, precise laws of physics, precise laws of chemistry, precise mathematical laws, precise laws of biology, along with Earth being TOTALLY suitable for our perfectly compatible human anatomy.... what or who intentionally caused it ? The atheist says Nothing caused Something .. the Theist says SomeONE caused it , who personally and willfully wanted it to be as such. Does atheism sound like the reasonable and logical answer (setting aside all manner of personal bias) ?
In the battle for your consciousness, understand that nonsense will pick up steam if it is not counteracted! So as one poster rightly put it, Education is vital. But be careful, nonsense has a way of masquerading as knowledge. It will put on the mask of education. So in deprograming, having a good discernment is important. Work on the ability to distinguish between whats right and wrong.
In the battle for your consciousness, understand that nonsense will pick up steam if it is not counteracted! So as one poster rightly put it, Education is vital. But be careful, nonsense has a way of masquerading as knowledge. It will put on the mask of education. So in deprograming, having a good discernment is important. Work on the ability to distinguish between whats right and wrong.
Seems like a good place to learn about earthquakes; a good contribution. Which brings up another point, we have to often " Study our way out of being programed." There are plenty of things to help us out there, we just have to access them. Education is mainly dependant on our study of it.
Study is a type of committment; we have to be committed to our withdrawal from the things which are damaging us. I look at most of the problems I have had in life, and there was always an " Element of me actually enjoying the bondage." As in alcohol abuse, oh did parts of me enjoy that. My experience with women; We should only have one partner which could develop into a potential mate. Oh how I abused that in my life; I had to have 10! No thought of how that affected the ten, only the joy I got from the ten. No committment. So it took me years to deprogram from that, because it was a joy. It made ME feel good, no thought of their feelings. I am grateful that it was actually women who helped me withdraw from such foolishness; a higher class of woman called " A Lady." I started dating that type and learned something!
1. Ones culture and Mass Media can be , and is, a programming Tool useful for indoctrination/brainwashing vis-a-vis from lifestyle philosophies to a Worldview and everything in between. It can delegate where we should shop, where we should eat, what we should eat, how we should dress, how we should behave / act / talk , as examples. To some extent, we are ALL influenced by our Culture and what becomes popular and the norm .
2. It takes distinct programming to be an Atheist since every child of about 4-6 asks their Parent(s) 'Where did we come from' / 'How did all this get here ' / ' Why are we here ' . Such inquiries would not come forth if everyone were an atheist from birth , for, there would be no reason to ask these questions with the child inherently knowing everything was just one cosmic accident. Yet they DO ask knowing full well even at a very tender age, that, there is far more to things appearing willy-nilly and for no purpose/uncaused . Further, when the child eventually gets into grade school, they are forcefed a plethera of THEORIES about our origins which include persuasive religious ideologies of a colorful portrait of dead chemicals burping forth a little airbrushed pond protozoa sea creature that the child can identify with. Of course, they want to place their entire trust in their teaching authorities including cartoon looking school books that youngsters find appealing...yet are too young and immature to question their content. Once the seed is firmly planted, it only gets futher solidified as they continue thru the school system ... all without even one competing view ... that being Intelligent Causes . Therefore, we end up with a populus that has naturally been brainwashed to thinking THEORIES are scientific fact while finding great disdain toward what is far more common sense / logic of a personal theistic Creator fashioning and sustaining the cosmos as scientifically verfiried by near incomprehensible forms of precise engineering and specific complexity via design. In fact, VERY few adults are even willing to take the time and energy to diligently look into this , as, they have succumbed to their personal inherent rebellion to live life as they deem fit (again, fueld by an apathetic culture centered on Self interests) ...in conjunction with the justification that amorality offers thru the (previous) indoctination of Natural Causes , accidents, and what non-purpose offers . Of course all of this is the recipe for immoral lifestyles leading to anarchy , as can be measured on many fronts (and in fact, the word 'immorality' has now become a defunct nullified term for Ones extra added pleasure) . Ergo, reason and logic arent really at the forefront of a Persons quest...but rather, the requirement of entitlement and freedom to live anyway one chooses ......... only its not at all 'freedom' , but deep enslavement masqueraded by conscious or unconcious willful deception. I say willful, because it requires a willful suppression of ones Moral Conscience ... a deliberate veto of reason/logic/morality/and good ethics in favor of 'the good life' . Hope this helps bring greater clarification.
Not in the least, but perhaps I can bring you some needed clarification. It takes nothing to be an atheist. Rocks are atheist in that they do not believe in a god. Squirrels and bullfrogs (so far as the evidence indicates) atheist in that they do not have a belief in a god. Babies are born a-theist since they do not have a belief in a god - until it is taught them.
The questions they ask are reasonable curiosity questions and in no way are incompatible with atheism. In fact you show up your own flawed and inconsistent reasoning since, if we were born theist rather than atheist there would be no need of such questions. The answer would always be 'God dunnit'.
Your dodgy reasoning props itself up by performing a reverse leap of Faith from theism to cosmic or biological origins. With some ill informed rubbishing of any theory other than the non - explanation of goddunnit, you persuade yourself (since I doubt that you are persuading anyone else) that 'God' has to be the clear and obvious answer and thus in a twisty progress that make a maze look like a motorway, you have arrived where you want to - that God -talk is clear and evident truth and atheism is indoctrination.
Enjoy your triumph. Now hear this. Atheism doesn't say anything about cosmic or biological origins. All it needs to do is say 'nobody knows' and theism has no case or evidence. It is truly uninformed indoctrination.
To get back to a rational place that has to be subjected to deprogramming.
1. Ones culture and Mass Media can be , and is, a programming Tool useful for indoctrination/brainwashing vis-a-vis from lifestyle philosophies to a Worldview and everything in between. It can delegate where we should shop, where we should eat, what we should eat, how we should dress, how we should behave / act / talk , as examples. To some extent, we are ALL influenced by our Culture and what becomes popular and the norm .
I don't care a whit about any of the above, but I can understand why the religious would be more apt to be influenced by these things...It is their nature to follow the herd, or flock.
As for your theory that atheists are programmed for childhood, that is mostly true, BUT most of us were programmed into one religion or another, and had to overcome it...It was easy for me because of the goofy beliefs the religious hold, and my constantly questioning those beliefs, but perhaps others had a more difficult time breaking away.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
