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Old 09-05-2011, 09:47 AM
 
13,511 posts, read 19,403,905 times
Reputation: 16581

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
I guess you missed the section of the blog with links to all of the relevant scientific studies? Not his studies or opinions, but the peer-reviewed scientific studies of people with domain expertise.

Here, in case you couldn't find it:
Scientific Evidence » The Vaccine Times

Regarding peer-reviewed studies, it still confounds me that naysayers will question and criticize experts in the field, experts with a multitude of relevant qualifications and decades of experience, but will take anecdotal information and opinions of people with no education in the field as fact. I'd really love to understand the logic behind that, because it makes no sense to me.
I really amazes me that some people will except so-called "peer-reviewed scientific studies" that say NOTHING about any of the so-called scientists....next to nothing about the studies done( most to all done with vaccinated people)...your link above is basically useless, and tells me nothing....I'll believe Dr. Viera Scheibner over any of the above basically anonymous "scientists"...at least she is not afraid to say who she is...what studies she's done ..and why she did them......and she has been studying and researching vaccines for many, many years.....

 
Old 09-05-2011, 09:50 AM
 
13,511 posts, read 19,403,905 times
Reputation: 16581
To the OP...if you're still interested.....there is a NEW disease out there now....it`s called atypical measles...and is an especially viscious form of measles that affects only vaccinated children...and has a considerable mortality rate.
 
Old 09-05-2011, 10:25 AM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,435,360 times
Reputation: 32591
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
To the OP...if you're still interested.....there is a NEW disease out there now....it`s called atypical measles...and is an especially viscious form of measles that affects only vaccinated children...and has a considerable mortality rate.
Wrong. Not new. Studies go back to at least 1985. One of the causes is incomplete immunization.
 
Old 09-05-2011, 10:36 AM
 
14,569 posts, read 14,577,269 times
Reputation: 46371
Quote:
I really amazes me that some people will except so-called "peer-reviewed scientific studies" that say NOTHING about any of the so-called scientists....next to nothing about the studies done( most to all done with vaccinated people)...your link above is basically useless, and tells me nothing....I'll believe Dr. Viera Scheibner over any of the above basically anonymous "scientists"...at least she is not afraid to say who she is...what studies she's done ..and why she did them......and she has been studying and researching vaccines for many, many years.....
Viera Scheibner??? Can you spell c-r-a-c-k-p-o-t?

This woman is not a doctor. She has no background in medicine at all. She's a palentologist got that? She studies fossils.

She got a "bee in her bonnet" and one day decided to start complaining about vaccinations. Perhaps, her silliest moment was when she ran around her home country, Australia, gabbering that vaccines caused Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS). The problem with that notion is that SIDS rates have fallen dramatically in the last forty years, while vaccination rates have increased.

This clown won something called the "Bent Spoon Award" for conducting the worst scientific research in Australia.

Honestly, if you are going to ignore credible sources like the CDC and established medical journals to come up with a "contrarian point of view" on vaccination at least find some support from someone who isn't an out-an-out looney.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viera_Scheibner
 
Old 09-05-2011, 10:44 AM
 
4,264 posts, read 6,214,717 times
Reputation: 3579
I swore I wasn't going to do this but what the hell....

I only have a minute but lets take a look at Rotavirus. Rotavirus kills 20 people in the US every year due to diarrhea. http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/279...1/T2.large.jpg

Studies done in Brazil show that exclusive breastfeeding cuts the risk of death from diarrhea by 90%.
ingentaconnect The epidemiological and clinical characteristics and nutritional ...

Studies in Mexico show that the vaccine cuts the risk of death by 40%.
Rotavirus vaccine cuts deaths of Mexican babies from diarrhoea by 40% -- Gulland 340 -- bmj.com)

One of the problems that I have with the rotavirus vaccine is that it sheds in the fecal matter of the infant post vaccine so if the baby is in daycare and the daycare worker changes the baby's diaper and does not wash his or her hands properly afterwards or clean the diaper changing table properly, rotavirus can then be spread to other infants in the same daycare center. Detection of fecal shedding of rotavirus vaccine in ... [Vaccine. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

I breastfeed. I don't send my kids to daycare. I know how to manage acute diarrhea at home and if it becomes more severe I know when to call my doctor and seek further medical care such as going to the hospital for an IV.

Telling me that I am an irresponsible parent for skipping this particular vaccine is insulting and is incorrect. If I wasn't breastfeeding or was unable to recognize the signs of dehydration from diarrhea or was living in a 3rd world country then I would reconsider. I see no reason to unnecessarily inject my child for something just because it's on the schedule and people think that everyone needs to follow the same schedule whether it's relevant for them or not.
 
Old 09-05-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Northern California
970 posts, read 2,225,591 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
To the OP...if you're still interested.....there is a NEW disease out there now....it`s called atypical measles...and is an especially viscious form of measles that affects only vaccinated children...and has a considerable mortality rate.
All the info I found online about atypical measles is in scientific papers from the 80s and says that it is caused by the killed version of measles vaccine used in the 60s (last used in '67).

Edit: I take that back. There is one paper talking about atypical measles in a type of primate from 1999, but it also says it is from the inactivated vaccine that hasn't been used in years (way before I was even born).
 
Old 09-05-2011, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,979 posts, read 14,638,480 times
Reputation: 14863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
I swore I wasn't going to do this but what the hell....

I only have a minute but lets take a look at Rotavirus. Rotavirus kills 20 people in the US every year due to diarrhea. http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/279...1/T2.large.jpg

Studies done in Brazil show that exclusive breastfeeding cuts the risk of death from diarrhea by 90%.
ingentaconnect The epidemiological and clinical characteristics and nutritional ...

Studies in Mexico show that the vaccine cuts the risk of death by 40%.
Rotavirus vaccine cuts deaths of Mexican babies from diarrhoea by 40% -- Gulland 340 -- bmj.com)

One of the problems that I have with the rotavirus vaccine is that it sheds in the fecal matter of the infant post vaccine so if the baby is in daycare and the daycare worker changes the baby's diaper and does not wash his or her hands properly afterwards or clean the diaper changing table properly, rotavirus can then be spread to other infants in the same daycare center. Detection of fecal shedding of rotavirus vaccine in ... [Vaccine. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

I breastfeed. I don't send my kids to daycare. I know how to manage acute diarrhea at home and if it becomes more severe I know when to call my doctor and seek further medical care such as going to the hospital for an IV.

Telling me that I am an irresponsible parent for skipping this particular vaccine is insulting and is incorrect. If I wasn't breastfeeding or was unable to recognize the signs of dehydration from diarrhea or was living in a 3rd world country then I would reconsider. I see no reason to unnecessarily inject my child for something just because it's on the schedule and people think that everyone needs to follow the same schedule whether it's relevant for them or not.
Well that's all nice in theory, but rotavirus can be spread by hands, objects such as toys and surfaces, food, and water, so unless you live in a cave, merely keeping your child out of daycare will do nothing. If you go, well pretty much anywhere, rotavirus is present, think MacDonalds, grocery carts, restaurants, etc. That in of itself is not the issue. If your child is healthy they will pull through just fine, newborns, the elderly, and those who are immunocompromised are very vulnerable.


The irresponsible aspect is having no qualms about your healthy child recovering easily from VPD, but infecting someone who doesn't fare as well. Why is that so hard to understand?
 
Old 09-05-2011, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,312 posts, read 41,797,646 times
Reputation: 45712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Here's some food for thought regarding aluminum in vaccines:
Vaccine FAQs | Dr. Sears Official Website | Parenting Advice, Parenting Books & more

I see no original research here.

I guess we should not be using this link to support our points, huh?
 
Old 09-05-2011, 02:22 PM
 
4,264 posts, read 6,214,717 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Well that's all nice in theory, but rotavirus can be spread by hands, objects such as toys and surfaces, food, and water, so unless you live in a cave, merely keeping your child out of daycare will do nothing. If you go, well pretty much anywhere, rotavirus is present, think MacDonalds, grocery carts, restaurants, etc. That in of itself is not the issue. If your child is healthy they will pull through just fine, newborns, the elderly, and those who are immunocompromised are very vulnerable.


The irresponsible aspect is having no qualms about your healthy child recovering easily from VPD, but infecting someone who doesn't fare as well. Why is that so hard to understand?
Rotavirus is transmitted through the fecal oral route which means that vaccinated children are just as likely and able to spread rotavirus as unvaccinated children since the virus sheds in their feces in the days following vaccination. Would you dare call the parents who do vaccinate for rotavirus irresponsible? Their child is just as able as an unvaccinated child to spread the virus to someone who might not fare so well. They are also more likely to be out in public while contagious since they won't actually show signs of illness.

I referenced daycare because children in daycare are more at risk for the reasons mentioned above.

We know that breastfeeding is a protective factor. Would you dare call a mother who was unwilling to breastfeed irresponsible for not doing everything in her power to protect her child from rotavirus? (Please note that I said unwilling, not unable).

There are 20 deaths per year in the US from rotavirus. That is less then one third the amount of people who die each year in the US from being struck by lightening. We live in a country where we have access to IV's if our children (or our grandparents or our immunocompromised uncle) need to be hydrated due to dehydration caused by diarrhea caused by rotavirus.

Last edited by Dorthy; 09-05-2011 at 02:36 PM..
 
Old 09-05-2011, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,312 posts, read 41,797,646 times
Reputation: 45712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
I swore I wasn't going to do this but what the hell....

I only have a minute but lets take a look at Rotavirus. Rotavirus kills 20 people in the US every year due to diarrhea. http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/279...1/T2.large.jpg

Studies done in Brazil show that exclusive breastfeeding cuts the risk of death from diarrhea by 90%.
ingentaconnect The epidemiological and clinical characteristics and nutritional ...

Studies in Mexico show that the vaccine cuts the risk of death by 40%.
Rotavirus vaccine cuts deaths of Mexican babies from diarrhoea by 40% -- Gulland 340 -- bmj.com)

One of the problems that I have with the rotavirus vaccine is that it sheds in the fecal matter of the infant post vaccine so if the baby is in daycare and the daycare worker changes the baby's diaper and does not wash his or her hands properly afterwards or clean the diaper changing table properly, rotavirus can then be spread to other infants in the same daycare center. Detection of fecal shedding of rotavirus vaccine in ... [Vaccine. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

I breastfeed. I don't send my kids to daycare. I know how to manage acute diarrhea at home and if it becomes more severe I know when to call my doctor and seek further medical care such as going to the hospital for an IV.

Telling me that I am an irresponsible parent for skipping this particular vaccine is insulting and is incorrect. If I wasn't breastfeeding or was unable to recognize the signs of dehydration from diarrhea or was living in a 3rd world country then I would reconsider. I see no reason to unnecessarily inject my child for something just because it's on the schedule and people think that everyone needs to follow the same schedule whether it's relevant for them or not.
DPH: Rotavirus - Fact Sheet

Rotavirus is very stable and may remain viable in the environment for months if not disinfected."

"
Wouldn’t good hygiene be enough to prevent rotavirus disease?

Better hygiene and sanitation have not been very effective in reducing rotavirus disease. This is illustrated by the fact that virtually everyone in the world is infected by rotavirus disease by age five years, despite differences in sanitation between countries."

"Each year in the United States rotavirus is responsible for more than 400,000 doctor visits, more than 200,000 emergency room visits, 55,000-70,000 hospitalizations, and 20-60 deaths."

Moderator cut: Please don't quote entire copyrighted works. A few sentences is fine.

Last edited by JustJulia; 09-05-2011 at 03:42 PM..
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