Coronavirus in Massachusetts (loan, incomes, venues)

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by robr2

Censorship is when the the government blocks your speech. YouTube taking down a video for their network is not censorship.

We could argue about whether its legal or not but suppressing speech is censorship. There was a case Cherry sisters vs Iowa that set a precedent that speech can not be suppressed by anyone.

If free speech is not absolute then free speech does not exist at all.

[AtkinsonDan]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Maybe. I have a friend who is Mongolian-American, and she says Mongolia knew about it in November, and shut things down. Apparently Mongolia has a very low number of cases (only 38, with zero deaths), which one wouldn't expect based on its location and cultural connections.

However--I think even you'll admit--in January, the whole world knew about this virus. The US did not do anything until Jan 29, then sat pat until things got out of hand in March. If you read about some of the models (including the Northeastern Univ model that the Globe reported on yesterday), the virus was making the rounds in Boston and other metro areas starting in early February. The US government did not believe the science behind the spread, consistently underplayed the threat, and was afraid of the impact on the economy of shutting down too early.

So blaming China for this only goes so far, and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

What about the cases, deaths and economic damage in all the other countries other than The US and China? This is clearly all China's fault. They let it escape around the globe. You can't blame the US administration for what happened in Europe, Canada, Africa or other parts of Asia.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

What about the cases, deaths and economic damage in all the other countries other than The US and China? This is clearly all China's fault. They let it escape around the globe. You can't blame the US administration for what happened in Europe, Africa or other parts of Asia.

When did I ever bring in the other countries? I'm talking about the US government's actions, to effect changes in our country, when they and everyone else knew about this.

You know what--just think about this fact and let it sink in: the US has 5% of the world's population, but 25% of the world's fatalities from this virus. That alone tells you all you need to know about how "successful" the US response has been.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

When did I ever bring in the other countries? I'm talking about the US government's actions, to effect changes in our country, when they and everyone else knew about this.

You know what--just think about this fact and let it sink in: the US has 5% of the world's population, but 25% of the world's fatalities from this virus. That alone tells you all you need to know about how "successful" the US response has been.

That actually doesn't tell you very much at all about our response.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by massnative71

That actually doesn't tell you very much at all about our response.

How so? Is that a statistic for us to be proud of?

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Maybe. I have a friend who is Mongolian-American, and she says Mongolia knew about it in November, and shut things down. Apparently Mongolia has a very low number of cases (only 38, with zero deaths), which one wouldn't expect based on its location and cultural connections.

However--I think even you'll admit--in January, the whole world knew about this virus. The US did not do anything until Jan 29, then sat pat until things got out of hand in March. If you read about some of the models (including the Northeastern Univ model that the Globe reported on yesterday), the virus was making the rounds in Boston and other metro areas starting in early February. The US government did not believe the science behind the spread, consistently underplayed the threat, and was afraid of the impact on the economy of shutting down too early.

So blaming China for this only goes so far, and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

You make a good point. I knew about this in late december because I listen to a podcast from someone who i believe is a intelligence asset. He knew about the lab close to the market I was telling family members that its coming here and they thought i was crazy.He knew about facts that the average person would not know about. We could of acted earlier. Even though I am not for shutdowns but from what I was hearing the virus was going to be worse then it is and I would have stopped all travel and shut the border down immediately.


China still has the majority of the blame. doctors who tried to speak up ended up dead. even if china did not kill them they where threatening doctors.

[AtkinsonDan]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

When did I ever bring in the other countries? I'm talking about the US government's actions, to effect changes in our country, when they and everyone else knew about this.

You know what--just think about this fact and let it sink in: the US has 5% of the world's population, but 25% of the world's fatalities from this virus. That alone tells you all you need to know about how "successful" the US response has been.

Earlier you wrote this:

So blaming China for this only goes so far, and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Which is false. You take China's actions out of the chain events and there is no pandemic. Regardless of what the US or any other countries do subsequently, China bears full responsibility and blame for the COVID19 pandemic. It would not have happened if not for China. I am not going to blame the people and entities trying to clean up the mess caused by China. There will be missteps along the way.

[htfdcolt]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

Earlier you wrote this:


Which is false. You take China's actions out of the chain events and there is no pandemic. Regardless of what the US or any other countries do subsequently, China bears full responsibility and blame for the COVID19 pandemic. It would not have happened if not for China. I am not going to blame the people and entities trying to clean up the mess caused by China. There will be missteps along the way.

Ah, the Fox News talking points. Gotcha!

Never mind the fact that the US has its own epidemiology experts in the public & private sectors, and a world class CDC. My point is--the world knew about this in early January regardless of what China did or didn't do up to that point. And had the US acted then, we would not have the infection rate nor fatalities we have now. Dr. Fauci said this publicly not long ago...you can look it up.

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Just saw that number, which I believe is a new daily high death rate. This makes me really suspicious that there is some type of mechanism at play that is seeding new infections. Very troubling...it would imply we need to plateau first, then see a downward trend, before we can even talk about reopening. May 18 seems like a fantasy.

Originally Posted by porterhouse

I believe this is 100 new deceased in today's numbers, and 152 backdated to previous days. While unspeakably horrible that number is trending in the right direction.

It would be nice to see new cases drop and more detail on the source and nature of the new infections would be interesting.

% of positive tests is also trending in the right direction. It would be nice to see this number get below 10%.

Thanks for the clarification, Porterhouse.



Deaths are a lagging indicator since most people who pass away do so after 2 to 3 weeks in the hospital - so likely 3 to 4 weeks post-exposure. I wish we were able to get breakdowns of new cases & deaths occurring from care homes. It certainly feels like deaths in nursing homes are growing (especially given how many new nursing homes are impacted each day), but that's not giving the correct picture for community spread.


My city's health department is releasing daily updates about how many people have died, how many people have recovered, and how many people are actively ill. Today is the second day in a row where more people are considered recovered than sick. Two days is not a trend, but I have to admit I find it reassuring.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by charolastra00

Deaths are a lagging indicator since most people who pass away do so after 2 to 3 weeks in the hospital - so likely 3 to 4 weeks post-exposure.

Nationally we have had a couple of really low days. New York and New Jersey have been really dropping if that holds it will translate to a lower death rate soon.