Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Boston, Washington: territories, application, message)

[id77]

Originally Posted by porterhouse

They can pinpoint your location at a given time more precisely than that.

That's assuming my phone was on.

[bohemka]

Originally Posted by id77

That's assuming my phone was on.

It works better that way.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by id77

Assuming they had their phones on, they would just take everyone who pinged the nearby towers during the times I stated I was at said place(s)?

Well, if they were using cell phone data to trace, then yes. Something like that, though I think they're planning on using bluetooth (better for proximity tracing than towers). Most phones are actually set up to do that. If you are on an iPhone with the current iOS, go into settings, tap "Privacy," then "Health,"and then "COVID-19 Exposure Logging." It should be grayed out, but there's a switch to enable logging. It's setup to be compatible with contact tracing apps which would work by logging proximity data for a 14-day window and enabling the app (like a MA contact tracing app if one existed) to contact you if you've come in contact with someone who has had COVID-19 or vice versa. Android has a similar setup too.

But MA isn't doing that. At least not as of now. Baker is concerned it would be too invasive and people wouldn't trust the companies logging their data, and from all appearances, the apps would require users to voluntarily opt in (which seems unlikely to garner high participation). So contact tracing ("community tracing" in MA) is essentially done the old fashioned way. If you test positive, someone from the team calls you. You then tell them basically everyone you've had contact with for the past two weeks, and they reach out to them (keeping your information private).

[id77]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Well, if they were using cell phone data to trace, then yes. Something like that. Most phones are actually set up to do that. If you are on an iPhone with the current iOS, go into settings, tap "Privacy," then "Health,"and then "COVID-19 Exposure Logging." It should be grayed out, but there's a switch to enable logging. It's setup to be compatible with contact tracing apps which would work by logging proximity data for a 14-day window and enabling the app (like a MA contact tracing app if one existed) to contact you if you've come in contact with someone who has had COVID-19 or vice versa. Android has a similar setup too.

But MA isn't doing that. At least not as of now. Baker is concerned it would be too invasive and people wouldn't trust the companies logging their data. So contact tracing ("community tracing" in MA) is essentially done the old fashioned way. If you test positive, someone from the team calls you. You then tell them basically everyone you've had contact with for the past two weeks, and they reach out to them (keeping your information private).

That all makes sense, though I'm thinking about a different scenario:

Fly from Logan to Heathrow, land with your phone off, leave it off for a bit because you're international and don't have an immediate need for it. Have a day to kill before your train out of Paddington leaves, so you wander around Heathrow a few hours, then head to the city for a few hours, more wandering. Hang out in Paddington for another few hours. Hop on train and turn on phone. 48 hours later, you have a cough and a fever. Maybe you got it from someone in London, maybe from someone in Boston and you brought it to London.

In those hours from when you disembarked from the flight (they can obviously trace other passengers on the same flight) until you turned your phone back on on the train out to Bath or wherever, you've wandered a major international airport with little information other than your word remembering which duty free store or bathroom you were at at X time. Who was in line with customs with you? What about your adventures about London and Paddington as well?

How does one contact trace in this scenario?

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by id77

That all makes sense, though I'm thinking about a different scenario:

Fly from Logan to Heathrow, land with your phone off, leave it off for a bit because you're international and don't have an immediate need for it. Have a day to kill before your train out of Paddington leaves, so you wander around Heathrow a few hours, then head to the city for a few hours, more wandering. Hang out in Paddington for another few hours. Hop on train and turn on phone. 48 hours later, you have a cough and a fever. Maybe you got it from someone in London, maybe from someone in Boston and you brought it to London.

In those hours from when you disembarked from the flight (they can obviously trace other passengers on the same flight) until you turned your phone back on on the train out to Bath or wherever, you've wandered a major international airport with little information other than your word remembering which duty free store or bathroom you were at at X time. Who was in line with customs with you? What about your adventures about London and Paddington as well?

How does one contact trace in this scenario?

It may not really work in your scenario - the hope is that it works a lot of the time, while knowing it won't be perfect.

I'm not convinced that cell phone tracing will work under any circumstance unless governments require that people comply. Even then, many elderly, poor, or technologically adverse people may not be able to participate. Many more may ditch the smartphone in protest of the violation of their rights.

But in your scenario, I would wager they'd simply do the best they can manually. The purpose isn't to find out where exactly you came down with it - it's to ensure that the people you've come in contact with are aware they may be exposed and take appropriate steps to reduce the spread. OR to make you aware you've been near someone who has had it so you can take the appropriate steps to isolate. So whether you got it in Boston or London isn't really important - what matters is who you have come in contact with over the past two weeks. But in your scenario, it's likely hard to coordinate a thorough trace between two countries. London may do their own trace (probably looping in the airline to notify passengers on your flight) while Massachusetts would do another. They're still not likely to be able to get most people you've come across though.

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

Yes. Let's hope it's revised based on the mounting evidence that kids don't get the disease, don't spread the disease, and that closing schools doesn't seem to help reduce the spread of the disease all that much.

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Please provide a citation to this mounting evidence?

There isn't any evidence. It's nothing more than wishful thinking.

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Most phones are actually set up to do that. If you are on an iPhone with the current iOS, go into settings, tap "Privacy," then "Health,"and then "COVID-19 Exposure Logging." It should be grayed out, but there's a switch to enable logging.

Don't have that on my iPhone. Is it really there?

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by redplum33

There isn't any evidence. It's nothing more than wishful thinking.

Of course there’s evidence. It’s been clear for months COVID-19 isn’t dangerous for those under 18.

https://data.cdc.gov/widgets/9bhg-hcku

That’s 21 deaths under 14. Tragic, but really really low. For comparison, there were 99 flu deaths for those under 14.

What’s less clear is how effective kids are at spreading it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ies-about-why/

European schools have been open for over a month without significant spikes in infection rate. Hopefully the next few months will give us a better idea of what works and what doesn’t. The idea that we have to assume everything is dangerous until proven safe isn’t workable. Of course shutting everything down for good is the best way to curb the spread of this disease, but there’s a cost to being too conservative as well as being too open. Half time or entirely remote learning isn’t as effective. Kids need face to face interaction for their social development.

I understood in March why everything was shut down, and even when the school year was cancelled. I even understand why the plans announced now and likely made a month or more ago are as restrictive as they are. I just hope that mounting evidence (from Europe and Asia and other parts of the world) on what is effective and what is excessive is integrated into school plans.

[bizcuit]

Originally Posted by id77

That's assuming my phone was on.

Well, I guess the point is, they would capture the majority of people. You, they would not. Oh well.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

Don't have that on my iPhone. Is it really there?

Do you have the latest iOS? I’m on 13.5.1 and I have it. It’s right at the top when I go to Settings > Privacy > Health.

Originally Posted by bizcuit

Well, I guess the point is, they would capture the majority of people. You, they would not. Oh well.

They won’t get anyone that way, phone on or not. They’re not tracing through phones except for very limited cases, and in all of those cases people have to have voluntarily downloaded apps and enabled the phone to transmit that info. MA doesn’t have an app yet, nor do most places.