Why must there be "White Guilt" to resolve racism? (drugs, crime)
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Agree with much here. Curious about your take on President Kennedy's Executive Order 10925, do you think this was a legitimate attempt to correct systemic faults?
Mike, while I agree with some of your points you just don't understand statistics.
White people ore 63% of the population. Blacks and Hispanics are about 12% each.
But Blacks make up 37% of the incarcerated population. That is 3x their percentage of the population as a whole.
Hispanics make up 22% of the incarcerated poulation. Almost 2x their percent of the population as a whole.
Whites make up 32% of the prison poulation, approximately 1/2x their percent of the population as a whole.
So a black person is 6x as likely to be incarcerated as a white person. An hispanic person is 4x as likely to be incarcerated as a white person.
And white males are 30% of the population and 50% of the people killed by police.
Whites are almost three times as likely to get killed by police as Asians relative to their population. Hispanics are roughly the same. Blacks are twice as likely to get killed by police as hispanics and whites and six times as likely as Asians. All adjusted for population size. These stats closely follow crime rates like homicide rates among the same groups.
Hispanics are 18% of the US population. Asians are 6.2% of the US population (20 million people). Look at homicide rates, including Asian homicide rates. Why should all races be killed and incarcerated at the same rate? You have to take into consideration crime levels to make any sense of this.
Oh, for heaven's sake, get over it! White privilege is a fact, by virtue of the fact that White people created the political and economic systems in this country, and control them. They were created inequitably, and some of that inequity is maintained to this day, a few aspects have been dismantled, but there's more work to be done in the "dismantling" department. All the concept of "white privilege" is doing, is acknowledging that generally speaking, the group that created the systems and maintains them, has an edge in reaping the benefits from them. That's all. I don't experience that as "guilt". If you do, that's your issue.
Wouldn't you want things to be fair? Shouldn't everyone who's equally qualified for whatever, whether it's a job, a seat at the university, a standard home loan, a workplace promotion, a house in their neighborhood of choice vs. in marginalized neighborhoods, or a decent life generally, have an equal chance to realize that? Where does guilt enter into the desire to have a just and fair society? What is your vision for America? That's all this is about.
No thats not what its about. Its not my issue when people label whites as akin to sons and daughters of drug kingpins, as whites claim innocence while benefiting from stolen wealth and think its time white people pay a price for this. This is the attitude that the "white privilege" rhetoric spurs. Its blatantly clear that this is demonizing and intended to guilt-trip.
"the white man" doesnt create and control America. Just as "the Jew" doesnt control America either. Why do you feel the need to demonize and shame whole ethnic groups like that when you know it just causes division and hatred?
You are playing into the hands of the economic elite with your divisive rhetoric. Thats why the corporate media, owned by the billionaire class, is packed with this stuff and you know it.
Do you think Asian Americans cant get standard home loans because we live in a society of "white privilege" and "white supremacy"? Or do you think things are far more complex than what you are generalizing about? Prejudice exists, a tall person is likely to be promoted, a female has advantages over others in many situations. Pretty people will also have advantages and on and on and on it goes. If you want to fight for fairness, you have to fight the power structure and the power lies in the hands of the economic elite, not the average Joe Sixpack trying to survive being disabled and downtrodden.
I never said "groups should not be seperated in statistics". Demonizing an entire ethnic group as privileged and undeserving is entirely different. The statistics dont show any "white privilege". On the contrary, if we are to label groups, they would show "Asian privilege". Yet, here we have young, white males thinking they are privileged walking down the street when half of all people killed by cops are white males, specifically young ones. Its quite absurd.
I am not arguing for the status quo. The corporate media that peddle the white privilege agenda does support the status quo. They are not interested in "raising awareness", owned as it is by the billionaire class, only interested in riling people up and evoke extreme emotions.
The power in America lies with the top 0.1% economic elite. The ruling class of America has the power. As long as people refuse to accept this and continue to vote for their puppets, then how on earth can people expect change? The oligarchy buy the political system, own the mainstream media, rig the economy, rig the courts in their favor and the working stiffs of America, regardless of skin color, gets the short end of the stick. Only through a radically different approach, a pro-worker approach, establishing a public safety net, a national health care system, expand educational opportunities, and emphasizing the importance of the trade union movement to spur positive change for the people can we really expect progress for all people in America. Thats the solution. But thats a threat to the media interests and the ruling economic elite. So they dont emphasize that. Better to focus on "white privilege".
Mike, your approach has been tried in Russia for 60 years without success, so there is a solid evidence that it doesn't work in practice, no need to repeat it. Economic elite of this country keeps the rest of the country afloat. Maybe the working class should just concentrate on more constructive pursuits than "activism", ie, on their own education, technical requirements of their work, and limiting the size of their offspring to something they can realistically support? Being a part of "economic elite" is mostly the result of these three pursuits.
Re race issues, the only skin color that truly matters is purple, as a certain very talented multiracial musician demonstrated by total dedication to a huge volume and quality of art that he left behind him. People like him have no need for pointless ego-tripping disguised as "activism" or "awareness of history"; they simply do something valuable that speaks for itself.
Mike, your approach has been tried in Russia for 60 years without success, so there is a solid evidence that it doesn't work in practice, no need to repeat it. Economic elite of this country keeps the rest of the country afloat. Maybe the working class should just concentrate on more constructive pursuits than "activism", ie, on their own education, technical requirements of their work, and limiting the size of their offspring to something they can realistically support? Being a part of "economic elite" is mostly the result of these three pursuits.
Re race issues, the only skin color that truly matters is purple, as a certain very talented multiracial musician demonstrated by total dedication to a huge volume and quality of art that he left behind him. People like him have no need for pointless ego-tripping disgused as "activism" or "awareness of history"; they simply do something valuable that speaks for itself.
Having a public safety net and a national health care system is something every decent society has enacted. America is the sole exception among developed countries and is more akin to third world countries when it comes to worker's rights, income and wealth inequality and the marginal power the vast majority of the people have in the political system. Wealthy business interests buy the political system and get their preferred policies enacted. Look at the gap between public policy and public opinion in America. The gap is enormous. That gap is filled with billionaire class money, buying favorable legislation.
Having a public safety net and a national health care system is something every decent society has enacted. America is the sole exception among developed countries and is more akin to third world countries when it comes to worker's rights, income and wealth inequality and the marginal power the vast majority of the people have in the political system. Wealthy business interests buy the political system and get their preferred policies enacted. Look at the gap between public policy and public opinion in America. The gap is enormous. That gap is filled with billionaire class money, buying favorable legislation.
The US has a better public safety net and health care system than a very large number of decent societies, because of the huge national wealth that would not exist without the US billionaires taking care of their enterprises.It's all good and well to have a decent society, but somebody has to pay for it, and proletarian activists have not proven themselves too eager to work Bill Gates hours to generate material base for a decent society - they only want things handed to them. But somebody has to create and maintain those things. The economic elite is pulling a tremendous weight, and already giving the rest of the society practically everything this society has - why shouldn"t they be trusted with power as well?
Incidentally, I am not actually all that interested in politics; I occasionally end up on these "political" City Data topics by way of monitoring the posts on crime situation and improvements in the Bronx (where I"d like to retire because of affordability), and then I get involved in some discussion like this accidentally. People wonder what kind of strange bird I might be with my total economic conservativism, and total social/lifestyle liberalism - well, I'm a libertarian. I didn't get to vote in the last round because I had to be away from my home state, but I would have voted for Gary Johnson, not for either one of the "popular" two. The objective would be to keep capitalism strong so everybody who wants can partake of its fruits, and to quit having all this pathetic, pornographic interest in who is which color and whether Marines should or not be allowed to be transsexual.
You just made my point. White males are 30% of the population, but white males and females are 63%. There are twice as many whites as Hispanics and blacks combined, whether it's males or females or both. If The group that is two times larger gets half the killings, then the group that is half it's size gets the other half of the killings. If the smaller group gets the same killings as the group twice it's size, then the members of the smaller group are twice as likely to get killed by the police. You are proving my point but don't seem to realize it. Do you think the blacks and hispanics are twice as likely to commit crimes or just twice as likely to be killed? Are blacks 6x as likely as whites to commit crimes or are they just 6x more likely to be caught and incarcerated? What any of this has to do with oriental females is totally beyond me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike
And white males are 30% of the population and 50% of the people killed by police.
You just made my point. White males are 30% of the population, but white males and females are 63%. There are twice as many whites as Hispanics and blacks combined, whether it's males or females or both. If The group that is two times larger gets half the killings, then the group that is half it's size gets the other half of the killings. If the smaller group gets the same killings as the group twice it's size, then the members of the smaller group are twice as likely to get killed by the police. You are proving my point but don't seem to realize it. Do you think the blacks and hispanics are twice as likely to commit crimes or just twice as likely to be killed? Are blacks 6x as likely as whites to commit crimes or are they just 6x more likely to be caught and incarcerated? What any of this has to do with oriental females is totally beyond me.
Hispanics get killed by police at about the same rate as whites. Hispanics actually are slightly less likely to get killed if you adjust for the fact that hispanics are younger on average and younger people statistically are more likely to get killed by the police. Its the ASIANS who are severely underrepresented in killings by the police, not whites. Whites are almost 3x as likely to get killed by the police as Asians, adjusted for population. If you seriously believe that the Asian American murder rate is just as high as the African American murder rate, but African Americans just happen to be caught and incarcerated more often because of some type of racism, then you are not living in the real world and have drunk the kool-aid.
Hispanics get killed by police at about the same rate as whites. Hispanics actually are slightly less likely to get killed if you adjust for the fact that hispanics are younger on average and younger people statistically are more likely to get killed by the police. Its the ASIANS who are severely underrepresented in killings by the police, not whites. Whites are almost 3x as likely to get killed by the police as Asians, adjusted for population. If you seriously believe that the Asian American murder rate is just as high as the African American murder rate, but African Americans just happen to be caught and incarcerated more often because of some type of racism, then you are not living in the real world and have drunk the kool-aid.
Okay Mike, I agree with you on this one (although I don't share your other opinions). Statistically, members of certain races do commit more crimes, and are consequently more often killed by the police, including more often killed by mistake. The solution is for the police to carry (and know how to use) tasers, so nobody gets killed by the police ever.
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