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I thought the thread was about guilt being necessary to resolve racism. I posted no, and the poster I agreed with posted no. But there is racism, and it is systematic in many police forces. I'm white and have experienced police misconduct. But the police don't fear me. I'm not the boogeyman so I am not likely to be shot for no good reason. Neither is an Asian female. So to that extent we are extended a privilege by the police that a black person is less likely to be afforded. Privilege doesn't mean i'm rich. I'm just less likely to be shot or beat up for no reason by the police. If you can't see that then you are on a different wavelength than I am or the poster I gave the thumbs up to was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike
What you are talking about has nothing to do with "white privilege". An Asian female would have the same "privilege". What you are talking about is simply certain situations that may cause someone to be subject of discrimination. And lets make it clear, all people have certain advantages and disadvantages in life. A tall person would likely be treated differently than non-tall people in certain situations. Its stupid to call people privileged based on just one single attribute without even knowing the struggles that person deals with.
I thought the thread was about guilt being necessary to resolve racism. I posted no, and the poster I agreed with posted no. But there is racism, and it is systematic in many police forces. I'm white and have experienced police misconduct. But the police don't fear me. I'm not the boogeyman so I am not likely to be shot for no good reason. Neither is an Asian female. So to that extent we are extended a privilege by the police that a black person is less likely to be afforded. Privilege doesn't mean i'm rich. I'm just less likely to be shot or beat up for no reason by the police. If you can't see that then you are on a different wavelength than I am or the poster I gave the thumbs up to was.
But guilt-tripping people is precisely what labels like "white privilege" is intended to do. Why on earth would you use such labels when its blatantly obvious that minorities like Asian females are far less likely to get killed than white males? You know fully well that it is nonsense when 532 white males were killed by police last year, including the majority of unarmed people and 0 Asian females were killed. You can claim you are not the boogeyman but chances are, a young white male is far more likely to get shot and killed by police than an Asian female. Young white males are involved in far more crime than Asian females. Young white males are bigger and stronger as well. Thats just the fact. You can claim that you are privileged as much as you want but you are being dishonest. If you are male you are more likely to get killed. If you are white you are more likely to get killed than Asians. If you are tall you will be "privileged" in certain situations as well. On the other hand, you are likely to be seen as more of a threat as well. The reality is far more complex than saying "whites are afforded privileges" in a system of systematic racism conducted by the white people. That type of rhetoric is highly counterproductive and breeds hatred and demonization.
No, it's intended to awaken you to the accumulated effects of histories that you have somehow grown up unaware of. But is hasn't worked yet.
No its not. It is highly counterproductive to label an entire ethnic group as undeserving and privileged. Shaming and demonizing is what cause division in society and thats why corporate media, owned by the billionaire class, is happy to do it. You are playing into the arms of the elite by using this rhetoric. People rightly feel they are being castigated, just like you do when people would try to shame you because of your "heterosexual privilege"? As a "heterosexual with privilege" are you taking responsibility for your part in a homophobic system and the perpetuation of homophobia which you benefit from or do you feel you are being accused of something you have nothing to do with?
People getting killed by police has nothing to do with who gets taken into custody.
What you are talking about has nothing to do with "white privilege". An Asian female would have the same "privilege". What you are talking about is simply certain situations that may cause someone to be subject of discrimination. And lets make it clear, all people have certain advantages and disadvantages in life. A tall person would likely be treated differently than non-tall people in certain situations. Its stupid to call people privileged based on just one single attribute without even knowing the struggles that person deals with.
You seem to be obsessed with Asian females. Yet you don't think groups should be separated out. Which is it?
But here's my deeper question: basically you are arguing for the status quo. The status quo means continued negative race relations.
Instead of just throwing up the same data over and over, why don't you offer some concrete proposals for change. CONCRETE.
I'm afraid this does not work. There is just too much ingrained behaviors in society where this type of statement doesn't even scratch the surface at getting anywhere towards not being racist.
When you don't have the life experience of someone else it's kind of hard to see things from their perspective. I had several middle and upper middle class black friends who had common experiences of getting stopped by police for no reason what so ever. I've only been stopped once in my whole life.
White friends of mine were commonly stopped coming and going from my home late at night.
The Oakland Police would ask them for license and registration and where they were going...
One officer was more specific and asked his purpose in a Black neighborhood...
When the first Asian family moved into the neighborhood it caused quite row being a 95% African American neighborhood... some blatantly said this is OUR neighborhood and they won't last because we want them out... I just shook my head saying the Cambodian family bought the house that was on the market for almost a year... plenty of time for someone local to have stepped up.
It was not easy for them and they quickly kept to themselves and the first to put up a metal fence...
Fast forward to today and the there are almost zero African Americans left... the kids quickly sell when the old people die... I would say this area of East Oakland is just about all Spanish Speaking...
Important to point out this is a neighborhood of home owners... single family modest home on small lots...
My problem is I have seen it first hand and what may be true elsewhere is not true everywhere....
Pops said growing up in East Oakland his grade school class was black, Asian, american Indian, Irish German etc... and one Mexican... this was before WWII.
You seem to be obsessed with Asian females. Yet you don't think groups should be separated out. Which is it?
But here's my deeper question: basically you are arguing for the status quo. The status quo means continued negative race relations.
Instead of just throwing up the same data over and over, why don't you offer some concrete proposals for change. CONCRETE.
I never said "groups should not be seperated in statistics". Demonizing an entire ethnic group as privileged and undeserving is entirely different. The statistics dont show any "white privilege". On the contrary, if we are to label groups, they would show "Asian privilege". Yet, here we have young, white males thinking they are privileged walking down the street when half of all people killed by cops are white males, specifically young ones. Its quite absurd.
I am not arguing for the status quo. The corporate media that peddle the white privilege agenda does support the status quo. They are not interested in "raising awareness", owned as it is by the billionaire class, only interested in riling people up and evoke extreme emotions.
The power in America lies with the top 0.1% economic elite. The ruling class of America has the power. As long as people refuse to accept this and continue to vote for their puppets, then how on earth can people expect change? The oligarchy buy the political system, own the mainstream media, rig the economy, rig the courts in their favor and the working stiffs of America, regardless of skin color, gets the short end of the stick. Only through a radically different approach, a pro-worker approach, establishing a public safety net, a national health care system, expand educational opportunities, and emphasizing the importance of the trade union movement to spur positive change for the people can we really expect progress for all people in America. Thats the solution. But thats a threat to the media interests and the ruling economic elite. So they dont emphasize that. Better to focus on "white privilege".
Mike, while I agree with some of your points you just don't understand statistics.
White people ore 63% of the population. Blacks and Hispanics are about 12% each.
But Blacks make up 37% of the incarcerated population. That is 3x their percentage of the population as a whole.
Hispanics make up 22% of the incarcerated poulation. Almost 2x their percent of the population as a whole.
Whites make up 32% of the prison poulation, approximately 1/2x their percent of the population as a whole.
So a black person is 6x as likely to be incarcerated as a white person. An hispanic person is 4x as likely to be incarcerated as a white person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike
But guilt-tripping people is precisely what labels like "white privilege" is intended to do. Why on earth would you use such labels when its blatantly obvious that minorities like Asian females are far less likely to get killed than white males? You know fully well that it is nonsense when 532 white males were killed by police last year, including the majority of unarmed people and 0 Asian females were killed. You can claim you are not the boogeyman but chances are, a young white male is far more likely to get shot and killed by police than an Asian female. Young white males are involved in far more crime than Asian females. Young white males are bigger and stronger as well. Thats just the fact. You can claim that you are privileged as much as you want but you are being dishonest. If you are male you are more likely to get killed. If you are white you are more likely to get killed than Asians. If you are tall you will be "privileged" in certain situations as well. On the other hand, you are likely to be seen as more of a threat as well. The reality is far more complex than saying "whites are afforded privileges" in a system of systematic racism conducted by the white people. That type of rhetoric is highly counterproductive and breeds hatred and demonization.
But guilt-tripping people is precisely what labels like "white privilege" is intended to do..
Oh, for heaven's sake, get over it! White privilege is a fact, by virtue of the fact that White people created the political and economic systems in this country, and control them. They were created inequitably, and some of that inequity is maintained to this day, a few aspects have been dismantled, but there's more work to be done in the "dismantling" department. All the concept of "white privilege" is doing, is acknowledging that generally speaking, the group that created the systems and maintains them, has an edge in reaping the benefits from them. That's all. I don't experience that as "guilt". If you do, that's your issue.
Wouldn't you want things to be fair? Shouldn't everyone who's equally qualified for whatever, whether it's a job, a seat at the university, a standard home loan, a workplace promotion, a house in their neighborhood of choice vs. in marginalized neighborhoods, or a decent life generally, have an equal chance to realize that? Where does guilt enter into the desire to have a just and fair society? What is your vision for America? That's all this is about.
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