How Do Clevelanders With An Inferiority Complex to Get Over It? (Columbus: condo, utilities)

[gouldnm]

Originally Posted by WRnative

The federal government is such a massive part of the Washington, DC, economy, that even a 10 percent cutback would cause an economic earthquake. Some day research how frugal the federal government was in the past.

I remember reading a biography of George F. Kennan that said that the U.S. embassy in Germany wasn't even allowed to have an automobile in the 1930s. Within a decade, the U.S. will be so desperate to maintain basic programs and service its debt, that lobbying in Washington, DC, will provide little economic benefit, likely greatly reducing the massive Washington shadow economy.

I make no claims to predict the future.


I have researched the past, however. The government expands and contracts, and yet somehow D.C. keeps growing.


Besides, if government spending shrinks that much, it won't just affect D.C. People across the country don't realize just how much government spending impacts their lives through investments in infrastructure, research, etc., not to mention actual federal jobs. I just read somewhere that Cleveland alone has 30,000 government employees. But that's an issue for another forum.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Merge

No. I am not kidding you.

You could make a case that there are other glass house botanical gardens like Phipps, although I would say not as gilded, or as historically well-preserved.

Have you ever been to Longwood Gardens? Seriously, have you ever been to Longwood Gardens?

https://longwoodgardens.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwood_Gardens

https://longwoodgardens.org/leadership-team

Now the question is whether I would consider Longwood Gardens unique. In scale, collections, and beauty, definitely, at least in the U.S.

Originally Posted by Merge

You could make a case that there are other universities like CMU... but the architecture there, along with the public art on campus is unlike what I have seen...

I've toured many, many universities and I don't share your opinion. Have you ever been to Princeton University, where little is spared in creating a possibly unique American campus. Who else builds like this in the 21st century? While there, check out the Princeton University Chapel in comparison to the Heinz Chapel at the University of Pittsburgh, and the latter is very beautiful.

https://www.princeton.edu/news/2007/...l-architecture

https://princetoniana.princeton.edu/...rks/sculptures

You raise an interesting question about what I would consider unique in Cleveland -- perhaps Severance Hall and the U.S.S. Cod (level of historical preservation, such as working engines, entry and exit by original hatches and ladders). With its emphasis on African Americans, perhaps the Soldiers and Sailors Monument at Public Square.

https://clevelandmagazine.com/in-the...'-monument

With a complete Tiffany-designed interior containing his signature "The Flight of Souls," perhaps the Wade Memorial Chapel is unique. The Garfield Monument may also have a claim to being unique among Presidential resting places, as the largest such Presidential building.

https://lakeviewcemetery.com/visit/p...morial-chapel/

http://touringohio.com/northeast/cuy...-memorial.html

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by gouldnm

I have researched the past, however. The government expands and contracts, and yet somehow D.C. keeps growing.

Ha! The federal government has never truly contracted, ever!

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Ha! The federal government has never truly contracted, ever!

Wrong! Post-Civil War and post-WW1.

See Table 1.1 here:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/historical-tables/

[gouldnm]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Ha! The federal government has never truly contracted, ever!

LOL!


Just remember that the federal government isn't just D.C. In addition to the 30,000+ federal employees in the Cleveland area, Dayton also has a huge number of federal employees (think Wright-Patterson AFB). When I graduated Ohio State, one of my class mates even got a federal job in Cincinnati. Apparently there's a major health research agency down there.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Wrong! Post-Civil War and post-WW1.

See Table 1.1 here:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/historical-tables/

Spending gets jacked up to fight wars. Look at 1916, pre-US involvement in WWI. It goes up by huge numbers through the end of the war and after. It starts to decline, even declines a lot, but only relative to the height of war spending. It never goes back to pre-military industrial complex levels ever again!

So maybe technically it is correct to say that federal spending has been cut or reduced or however one wants to phrase it. But I don't think it's as meaningful as one might think.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by gouldnm

LOL!


Just remember that the federal government isn't just D.C. In addition to the 30,000+ federal employees in the Cleveland area, Dayton also has a huge number of federal employees (think Wright-Patterson AFB). When I graduated Ohio State, one of my class mates even got a federal job in Cincinnati. Apparently there's a major health research agency down there.

Nobody said there aren't federal jobs outside DC. But if you seriously think DC doesn't economically benefit that much (since it's apparently so diverse, this is what I'm inferring from your statement) from its status as capital city, I don't know what to tell you. Even "private" businesses in DC are really just getting the sloshed around federal dollars from their public employee patrons. I believe WRnative and I have made this same argument about Columbus. But Columbus is mild compared to DC!

Obviously you can't ever get rid of this type of thing completely and I'm not suggesting anyone pursue that. But my point is that so much of this is concentrated in DC it's really incredible.

[QCongress83216]

Originally Posted by gouldnm

I can't speak for Clevelanders--I'm sure they could give you a better opinion than I could. But my guess would be because they don't feel that their city is acknowledged or respected. It's not so much that people put Cleveland down, they just ignore it altogether. It never seems to make "Best of" lists, for example.

There's a perception that Cleveland has never changed beyond its rust belt image. Compare it to Pittsburg, which has been much more successful at changing that image. I'm not sure why this is. My husband and I visited Pittsburg and really weren't that impressed. It doesn't have the cultural amenities that Cleveland has, its downtown wasn't much, and the traffic was far worse than Cleveland! Yet, for some reason, everybody talks about how much Pittsburg has changed and what a desirable place it is.

I really don't know why that is. Perhaps others on the thread might have some ideas.

One thing that would help Cleveland is if they had an explosion of jobs in new industries. It's a shame that Ohio State wasn't placed in Cleveland. Can you just imagine if Cleveland had a major university that generated lots of new jobs? That would certainly put the city on the map! Even people on the coasts would start paying attention.

I consider Cleveland a desirable place to retire, but if I were young, I would not want to move there. I'd be very concerned about the economy. The coasts have traffic, a high cost of living, and a stressful lifestyle, but the economy is a lot more diversified and there are a lot more opportunities.

On the positive side, last time my husband and I visited his hometown of Canton, we went out to a fine dining restaurant. Our waiter was a young man who had relocated from California. He said he was moving to Ohio because the cost of living in California was just too high, and even as a waiter, he felt he had a better life than what he had in California. Go figure!

Well, those people who think that are close-minded and never tried to find out about Cleveland, and just accepted the media stories, jokes or hearsay as facts. And. most people haven't visited the city within the last 20 or 30 years. So, what do they know? You're right, Cleveland doesn't make a lot of "Best Of" lists but it's made too many "Worst Of" lists. I think the media and/or social media definitely helps shape the images and perceptions of cities.

But, I don't think only people who live in cities that don't get attention compete with other cities; some people on the Coasts compete with other cities too. How do your friends on the Coasts react when you say you would retire in Cleveland? That waiter from California must've been some serious rent and utilities out there.

[gouldnm]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Nobody said there aren't federal jobs outside DC. But if you seriously think DC doesn't economically benefit that much (since it's apparently so diverse, this is what I'm inferring from your statement) from its status as capital city, I don't know what to tell you. Even "private" businesses in DC are really just getting the sloshed around federal dollars from their public employee patrons. I believe WRnative and I have made this same argument about Columbus. But Columbus is mild compared to DC!

Obviously you can't ever get rid of this type of thing completely and I'm not suggesting anyone pursue that. But my point is that so much of this is concentrated in DC it's really incredible.

I don't disagree with what you say, but I'd expand it to more than just D.C. That's one of the advantages that East (and more recently West) Coast cities have that Midwestern cities don't: access to money, power, and influence. Besides just political power, there's an incredible concentration of wealth on the coasts. It's pretty overwhelming, actually.


Without getting political, I expect that this is the primary reason why so many people in the Midwest went for Trump in 2016. They were simply tired of being the "forgotten Americans". Not that I blame them for this.


It's a real problem, and I don't know how to solve it!

[gouldnm]

Originally Posted by QCongress83216

Well, those people who think that are close-minded and never tried to find out about Cleveland, and just accepted the media stories, jokes or hearsay as facts. And. most people haven't visited the city within the last 20 or 30 years. So, what do they know? You're right, Cleveland doesn't make a lot of "Best Of" lists but it's made too many "Worst Of" lists. I think the media and/or social media definitely helps shape the images and perceptions of cities.

But, I don't think only people who live in cities that don't get attention compete with other cities; some people on the Coasts compete with other cities too. How do your friends on the Coasts react when you say you would retire in Cleveland? That waiter from California must've been some serious rent and utilities out there.

Before you label people as "close minded", keep in mind that many people on the Coasts lead incredibly hectic and busy lives. They literally don't have time to see much that's not right in front of their faces! They might know about other large cities, but they don't know much beyond that.


You ask how people react when I say I want to retire in Cleveland. Like I said earlier, most just draw a complete blank. I think you have this idea that people on the Coasts like to sit around all day making jokes about Cleveland. Please believe me when I say it's not like that! Most people are just normal, working people trying to get through each day of their stressful lives.


Sometimes, though, I get positive comments. You'd be surprised how many Cleveland fans are out there! And people who are really serious about classical music all know about the Cleveland Orchestra, and that includes a lot of people from New York City.