Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Obviously money played into it. I can understand Cleveland, the City desperately needing the revenue so it would make sense they would offer up the highest bid. I'm sure it's been a good investment. I don't criticize Cleveland and I don't blame them. When I'm in Cleveland I definitely want to visit the HOF, so I do have a reason to go there.
If it hadn't been for the money, and if the musicians had a say-so where to build the RnRHoF, without a doubt it would have been built in Memphis.
Even if they didn't build the HoF in Memphis, I could understand the museum being built in cities such as Philadelphia, New York City, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Kansas City, New Orleans, Atlanta, Muscle Shoals in Alabama, San Francisco, Los Angeles. Those towns were known nationwide for their music scenes and they could each make a good case why the HoF should build their museum in their town. I don't remember ever hearing anything about Cleveland's music scene, but that's where they built the museum.
That's why everybody's jaws dropped when it was announced the RnRHoF Museum was going to be built in Cleveland, Ohio.
Stax was record label based in Memphis and Graceland is where Elvis lived. It makes sense they would be in Memphis. Why would you expect them to be anywhere else?
It wasn't about money because if it was NYC would've gotten it. Back then, the place to get your record broke was Cleveland also the famous Rock DJ Alan Freed was from Cleveland. No because the damn committee felt CLE was a charity case. Plus, those cities you mentioned wouldn't have appreciated it, it just be another thing to them. It would be for bragging rights and their ego. NYC treat the inductions as another thing, they would do the same thing in those other cities since it isn't the Oscars, the Grammys, BET Hip Hop Awards or Mardi Gras. At least, Cleveland treats it like an event.
I mentioned Graceland and the Stax Museum because Memphis has their big tourist attractions. Why can't Cleveland have theirs?
I'd argue the fact that Cleveland's music scene doesn't have a distinctive "identity" the way these other cities do really helped its case. LA and SF are heavy on the surf and psychadelic scenes, Philly is known for hip-hop, Detroit for Motown, Memphis has Elvis but also the blues, NOLA is jazz and the blues, etc. Cleveland "works" not because it was the birthplace of a particular sound but because it's representative of how these new sounds ended up getting consumed nationwide. Alan Freed and the Moondog Coronation Ball are minor selling points compared to being the home of freaking Elvis Presley, but Cleveland represents that shift of making obscure genres mainstream, not to mention the very blue-collar factory worker aesthetic that rock tended to take in the 70s and 80s that would have still been very much in the minds of the RRHoF selection committee.
It also helps that it's directly halfway between two of the largest cities in the country, and at one point was a Continental hub. Memphis, as much as I enjoy that town, is definitely a little harder to reach from other population centers in the eastern half of the country.
I'd argue the fact that Cleveland's music scene doesn't have a distinctive "identity" the way these other cities do really helped its case. LA and SF are heavy on the surf and psychadelic scenes, Philly is known for hip-hop, Detroit for Motown, Memphis has Elvis but also the blues, NOLA is jazz and the blues, etc. Cleveland "works" not because it was the birthplace of a particular sound but because it's representative of how these new sounds ended up getting consumed nationwide. Alan Freed and the Moondog Coronation Ball are minor selling points compared to being the home of freaking Elvis Presley, but Cleveland represents that shift of making obscure genres mainstream, not to mention the very blue-collar factory worker aesthetic that rock tended to take in the 70s and 80s that would have still been very much in the minds of the RRHoF selection committee.
It also helps that it's directly halfway between two of the largest cities in the country, and at one point was a Continental hub. Memphis, as much as I enjoy that town, is definitely a little harder to reach from other population centers in the eastern half of the country.
Cleveland's music scene definitely has an identity. Cleveland has a very interesting underground scene, now and historically. IMO for the genre, hard to top Death of Samantha and Pere Ubu for the post-punk/experimental rock scene.
Metal has also been huge in Cleveland, still is today, especially at the Agora and W 117 venues.
Obviously money played into it. I can understand Cleveland, the City desperately needing the revenue so it would make sense they would offer up the highest bid. I'm sure it's been a good investment. I don't criticize Cleveland and I don't blame them. When I'm in Cleveland I definitely want to visit the HOF, so I do have a reason to go there.
If it hadn't been for the money, and if the musicians had a say-so where to build the RnRHoF, without a doubt it would have been built in Memphis.
Even if they didn't build the HoF in Memphis, I could understand the museum being built in cities such as Philadelphia, New York City, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Kansas City, New Orleans, Atlanta, Muscle Shoals in Alabama, San Francisco, Los Angeles. Those towns were known nationwide for their music scenes and they could each make a good case why the HoF should build their museum in their town. I don't remember ever hearing anything about Cleveland's music scene, but that's where they built the museum.
That's why everybody's jaws dropped when it was announced the RnRHoF Museum was going to be built in Cleveland, Ohio.
Stax was record label based in Memphis and Graceland is where Elvis lived. It makes sense they would be in Memphis. Why would you expect them to be anywhere else?
Read post 292. Cleveland was crazy about Rock 'n Roll. It was THE northern market that legitimatized Rock 'n Roll. It's where the term "Rock 'n Roll" was coined and it was the place where the first rock concert took place. It was the hotbed of rock 'n roll disc jockeys.
When the Rock Hall was proposed, Clevelanders voted in a USA Today about where to locate the Rock Hall in such multitudes that the votes for Cleveland exceeded all other cities combined.
Cleveland's political leadership grew up with rock 'n roll and the idea of putting the Rock Hall in Cleveland was the equivalent to consummating a love affair.
The success of the Rock Hall was not a certainty. No other city offered the money and commitment to a top-flight facility that was proffered by Cleveland.
Again read post 292 and the links there carefully.
And New York City likely would have been a bust for the Rock Hall, if anybody would have offered to finance it. The Rock Hall Annex lasted one year there.
Devo was from Akron/Kent. Pere Ubu from Cleveland.
Black Keys from Akron.
Joe Walsh started out in Kent. Chrissy Hynde (Pretenders) grew up in Cuyahoga Falls.
The Raspberries and The Outsiders were from Cleveland.
The Waitresses were from Akron.
If the RRHOF was in NYC it would be all the more a big corporate, marketing driven crapathon. The kind of thing bands like Devo allowed us to escape.
I know all that and have heard most of those bands myself; after all, I'm from Cleveland. But I don't really think those compare to Ivory Lee Spurlock's list:
>Elvis, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly, Roy Orbison, Johnny Cash
I know all that and have heard most of those bands myself; after all, I'm from Cleveland. But I don't really think those compare to Ivory Lee Spurlock's list:
>Elvis, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly, Roy Orbison, Johnny Cash
I mean, really.
The Cleveland justification for the Rock Hall wasn't that there were good musicians from there (though there were). But rather that it was where the genre really took off in the public/cultural sphere. Certainly other cities can make a claim here. But it had to go to one and the people of Cleveland clearly cared more. I think it's a fine choice.
Just to mention another Cleveland positive, a friend of mine, a transplant formerly living in Dallas moved here a couple of years ago to be with her daughter who had moved to Cleveland for a job.
Last week my friend went downtown to meet her daughter for lunch. It was the first time since she moved her she had seen downtown. She loved it. They ate at a great restaurant, walked around a lot and stopped at Public Square which impressed her very much. Her daughter works on the 17th floor of the Key Bank Bldg where she said the view of the lake was spectacular.
My friend is very conservative and not easily impressed so a strong compliment coming from her makes more of an impression on me that some twit making jokes just to get laughs.
On the other hand I was recently chatting with a nurse practitioner who, when I told her I had relocated from Portland a few years ago asked me why. Then she said she stayed there for a couple of months when she was sent there by her work and couldn’t wait to leave.
Again and again: not everyone will love every city, even one like Portland which is touted to be one of the “coolest.” But Portland does not have it’s dectrators from within whining, “ Why can’t we have nice things? Wah!”
“They said something mean about us!” Boo hoo, now we have to feel inferior, so let’s give ‘em what they want.”
Other cities outsiders knock them for the most part. They don’t waste a great deal of energy tearing themselves down.
I think those Clevelanders who continually keep bringing up only the tiresome negative people and their comments, especially when those comments are mainly hearsay, serve to keep the negativity running. They do just as much harm as Cleveland’s detractors.
I think those Clevelanders who continually keep bringing up only the tiresome negative people and their comments, especially when those comments are mainly hearsay, serve to keep the negativity running. They do just as much harm as Cleveland’s detractors.
I agree with you completely. I started reading this forum with a completely open mind. I'd already visited Cleveland about half a dozen times and have been seriously considering it as a place to retire. But I must confess that reading about the inferiority complex is starting to wear on me and make me have some doubts about the city. Not enough to change my mind (at this point) but enough to make me wonder if I need to look a little deeper before I make any final decisions.
It seems that there are various types of people on this forum:
Native Clevelanders who are defensive about it--it makes me wonder why and if there's something bad about Cleveland that I need to know
Native Clevelanders who are less defensive but hesitant to admit that there's anything wrong with it (when face it--ALL cities have some issues)--it makes me wonder what they're hiding
People who have lived on the Coasts and/or Chicago and are aware of the issues living in the so-called "cool" cities and are prepared to give Cleveland a chance (count me in!)
I would appreciate an honest assessment of Cleveland: the good, the bad, and the ugly.
ALL cities have problems--it's just a question of which ones you can live with and does the good outweigh the bad. Everybody's situation will be different. I am sure my perception as a person getting close to retirement will be very different from a young person who is just starting out.
I agree with you completely. I started reading this forum with a completely open mind. I'd already visited Cleveland about half a dozen times and have been seriously considering it as a place to retire. But I must confess that reading about the inferiority complex is starting to wear on me and make me have some doubts about the city. Not enough to change my mind (at this point) but enough to make me wonder if I need to look a little deeper before I make any final decisions.
It seems that there are various types of people on this forum:
Native Clevelanders who are defensive about it--it makes me wonder why and if there's something bad about Cleveland that I need to know
Native Clevelanders who are less defensive but hesitant to admit that there's anything wrong with it (when face it--ALL cities have some issues)--it makes me wonder what they're hiding
People who have lived on the Coasts and/or Chicago and are aware of the issues living in the so-called "cool" cities and are prepared to give Cleveland a chance (count me in!)
I would appreciate an honest assessment of Cleveland: the good, the bad, and the ugly.
ALL cities have problems--it's just a question of which ones you can live with and does the good outweigh the bad. Everybody's situation will be different. I am sure my perception as a person getting close to retirement will be very different from a young person who is just starting out.
I say that native Clevelanders feel they have to be defensive about it because it's maligned so much over the years nationally, so Clevelanders feel they have to fight hard to prove that the city does belong in America instead of it being annexed away from the country lol. So, I think Clevelanders have grown tired of the snarky comments or jokes about the city so they feel they need to fight back. Yes, you have some that are negative about the city because they just hate it. That's my assessment on that.
As you know I battle with it and I'm working through it. That's where I think The Clevelanders who are hesitant about to admit the problems have blinders on; that's just my assessment. For the most part, Clevelanders are more honest about their city than people in most cities. But, I don't think that's just limited to Cleveland IMO. Those type of people exist in every city across the U.S. As you even pointed out that many people in the "cool" cities don't know what it's like to leave home for job opportunities because it seems like they have the world at their fingertips, and it makes Clevelanders feel as if they don't have anything or maybe feel small or inferior; hence the inferiority complex.
Let me break down the good, bad and ugly:
Good: low cost of living, lower housing prices, food scene, improving Downtown, parks, West Side Market (wish I would get a little more play), friendly people, public transportation (there's room for improvement there), Playhouse Square (the 2nd largest theater district in the country), good colleges
Bad: underfunded public school system, economy, weather (well you're used to it), garbage tax
Ugly: crime, some blighted neighborhoods (which you have mentioned)
This is just my .02 cents.
Last edited by QCongress83216; 05-23-2018 at 02:37 PM..
Thanks, QCongress. For good points, don't forget the Cleveland Symphony and Art Museum. I usually lump those along with Playhouse Square into "cultural amenities comparable to much larger cities".
I like it that I can go to a symphony concert comparable to what I'd hear in NY, Boston, or Chicago!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
