How Do Clevelanders With An Inferiority Complex to Get Over It? (Akron: construction, restaurant)

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by teacherdad

I tell my wife should we live near RTA, we are not going to have a car. If we travel outside of CLE, we'll rent one for the day. Annually, we'll save thousands.

I prefer downtown, but some of these improving areas are very near RTA stations.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Minervah

This is the best idea in any city. No city has a public transportation system that will take everyone everywhere at every hour. As a non car owner all my life I can vouch for that fact. Many people now supplement their public transportation rides with Uber or Lyft. Renting is still a good idea.

If you live in a more-urban-than-not area with average bus service and are able to bike, personally I think that's enough to easily live a car-free life. That basically describes me now. I use Uber probably 5 times a month, typically if it's raining terribly and I don't want to bike somewhere or if I'm going somewhere 5+ miles away and need to be dressed well or something. That probably runs me about $80-90/month. I rent a car 3-4 times per year, mostly in summer to get out on road trips. $600 maybe? Certainly a lot cheaper than buying and maintaining an automobile!

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

If you live in a more-urban-than-not area with average bus service and are able to bike, personally I think that's enough to easily live a car-free life. That basically describes me now. I use Uber probably 5 times a month, typically if it's raining terribly and I don't want to bike somewhere or if I'm going somewhere 5+ miles away and need to be dressed well or something. That probably runs me about $80-90/month. I rent a car 3-4 times per year, mostly in summer to get out on road trips. $600 maybe? Certainly a lot cheaper than buying and maintaining an automobile!

When I was a young’un up until my mid thirties living in Chicago, I took public transportation or biked everywhere. After moving to Portland in the 70’s I gave up on the bike because I felt it was too dangerous. That was before bike lanes were installed. But they had much better bus service then. I did take the occasional cab. I also did a lot of walking. I mostly lived near a major bus line that hooked up to others.

Cleveland can’t be compared to Boston or Chicago when it comes to public transportation. Cleveland’s is not bad for its size. I live a car-free life here and I do okay with the bus system.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Minervah

Cleveland can’t be compared to Boston or Chicago when it comes to public transportation. Cleveland’s is not bad for its size. I live a car-free life here and I do okay with the bus system.

I would only say that when people think of "Boston" they tend to think of the places they know from a long weekend road trip once: Beacon Hill, Back Bay, North End, etc. Sure if you make 150k per year and live in a central neighborhood, you have great transit options that Cleveland cannot rival (and you also have a car regardless). I live in Brighton Center, a mere 5 miles from Boston Common. Not a "trendy" area. Closest train line is over a mile away and it's essentially a glorified bus anyway. I have 3 buses I can use, but they are not particularly fast. Rush hour is painfully slow. Weekend frequency on 2 of those bus routes can be one per every 45 minutes. This is more or less "average person Boston" in my opinion. Certainly Cleveland has more than a few areas where you could do at least that well.

[Minervah]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I would only say that when people think of "Boston" they tend to think of the places they know from a long weekend road trip once: Beacon Hill, Back Bay, North End, etc. Sure if you make 150k per year and live in a central neighborhood, you have great transit options that Cleveland cannot rival (and you also have a car regardless). I live in Brighton Center, a mere 5 miles from Boston Common. Not a "trendy" area. Closest train line is over a mile away and it's essentially a glorified bus anyway. I have 3 buses I can use, but they are not particularly fast. Rush hour is painfully slow. Weekend frequency on 2 of those bus routes can be one per every 45 minutes. This is more or less "average person Boston" in my opinion. Certainly Cleveland has more than a few areas where you could do at least that well.

I thoght Boston’s public transportation system was better than that. I guess that was not a very good example then. I stand corrected.

It’s the same these days with Portland. Time was when buses went into many different neighborhoods. Now they go mostly into the more densely populated more popular ones. Light rail eliminates bus lines even when the trains don’t cover the same areas. Most public transportation is geared towards commuters and tourists going to and from downtown.

In that respect, I think Cleveland does a better job of serving a broader part of its population.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Minervah

I thoght Boston’s public transportation system was better than that. I guess that was not a very good example then. I stand corrected.

It’s the same these days with Portland. Time was when buses went into many different neighborhoods. Now they go mostly into the more densely populated more popular ones. Light rail eliminates bus lines even when the trains don’t cover the same areas. Most public transportation is geared towards commuters and tourists going to and from downtown.

In that respect, I think Cleveland does a better job of serving a broader part of its population.

I'm not saying Boston's transit is "bad" but just not that it's what everyone who doesn't live here makes it out to be. If you go to Boston and you stay at a hotel in Kenmore Square and you get used to taking the T 2-3 stops to have fun over a weekend, you come away with an experience of Boston that in reality, only the very very rich or other tourists can relate to. Everyone else? Lots of biking, lots of waiting, lots of delays, buses sitting in traffic, intense crowding etc. Most people don't live in Beacon Hill or Back Bay, but in Brighton, Jamaica Plain, Dorchester, Allston and what have you.

I've said this before, but I really find the rapid infinitely more pleasant to ride than the T. It's faster, cleaner, more comfortable, smoother. At least 6 years ago when I took the green line every day, it was on time 90-95% of the time too.

[october2007]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I'm not saying Boston's transit is "bad" but just not that it's what everyone who doesn't live here makes it out to be. If you go to Boston and you stay at a hotel in Kenmore Square and you get used to taking the T 2-3 stops to have fun over a weekend, you come away with an experience of Boston that in reality, only the very very rich or other tourists can relate to. Everyone else? Lots of biking, lots of waiting, lots of delays, buses sitting in traffic, intense crowding etc. Most people don't live in Beacon Hill or Back Bay, but in Brighton, Jamaica Plain, Dorchester, Allston and what have you.

I've said this before, but I really find the rapid infinitely more pleasant to ride than the T. It's faster, cleaner, more comfortable, smoother. At least 6 years ago when I took the green line every day, it was on time 90-95% of the time too.

I agree that the Rapid is more pleasant to ride than the T but just wish it were more extensive. A few more lines would have been great!

[QCongress83216]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

There should be nothing remarkable about your story here, but sadly, there is. Not many folks would think about NOT driving from Beachwood. $5.50 all day pass is also insane. Here in Boston I think all-day passes are $13. Was just in Montreal last week, there it was I believe $12. But anyway, I used to have days like that a lot too, living in University Heights. I would take the green line to Shaker Square and hang out at Dewey's for an hour, then might take the rapid out to W 25 or W 65 and meet some friends who lived over there. Then I'd get back on and head to my evening/night job downtown. The most unfortunate part was getting back at night. If I wanted to go back to 25 or something and hang out I would miss the last rapid.

I get that frequency isn't every 5 minutes on the rapid. But at the same time, if you just look at NextConnect, you'll know when the next one is coming and can plan accordingly. People do that even in larger cities with higher frequency of trains and buses.

$12 for an all day pass in Boston? Wow! What are the other differences between the Rapid and transit in Boston?

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by october2007

I agree that the Rapid is more pleasant to ride than the T but just wish it were more extensive. A few more lines would have been great!

I read that the original Van Aken District plans called for extending the Blue Line.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by QCongress83216

$12 for an all day pass in Boston? Wow! What are the other differences between the Rapid and transit in Boston?

The Rapid seats are way more comfortable. The lights are brighter. The colors are more pleasant. There is more space, both to stand and in the seats. You can bring your bike on the Rapid and find a place that it won't be so much in the way. Impossible on the T. In fact, all green lines in Boston ban bikes for this reason.

The Rapid is much faster, at least the green and blue lines. I used to take the green line downtown from Courtland Station on Shaker. If I remember correctly, I would be coming up from Public Square 30 minutes later, with remarkable consistency. That is 8 miles in a half hour. Before I wised up in Boston and took the green line (B line) from Washington St to Government Center, that was 5 miles in 45 minutes (sometimes an hour- "this train is standing by" or "we will get moving shortly, there's traffic ahead" were common facepalm moments). The Rapid red line seems to me to be the slowest, though I haven't had cause to use it too consistently recently, just to get me from the airport to downtown. It's painfully slow. The heavy rail in Boston is in general much faster. Though if you commute with it, you will be familiar with massive delays a few times a month and in the winter there may be a few days you simply can't make it to work, not to mention even if you do, you will be waiting in a line of 2000 people outside in 20 degree weather and be 2 hours late. This may be the exception, but it DOES happen and the specter is always present. Fortunately, now I bike from Brighton to Cambridge and my 3 mile ride takes 15-20 minutes! Any able bodied person would do well to avoid the T, IMO.

Other differences? Well, the T is much more crowded than the Rapid. Sometimes the Rapid is depressingly empty. I appreciate the ample seating during off-peak hours, but I wish it would be more full so I felt better that it would exist in the future (or even expand). The MBTA did it right with a plethora of stations downtown. Wish the RTA (or its predecessors) would have done that too. The Waterfront Line somewhat does this with useful stops in the Flats, Browns Stadium, and the Rock Hall. But that is all more for "fun" stuff and isn't necessarily the most useful for day to day life. Would have been nice to have stops at Cleveland State, E 9, Public Square, and Warehouse District, for example.