Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Cleveland lacks some things, but parking isn't one of them. If you transported Cleveland infrastructure to other areas, people would be ecstatic. I do think you and OP are right that there is a kind of Cleveland malaise. I'm not sure it's "inferiority." But lots of people, likely because of massive decline in the city, grew up with a negative impression of the city. I remember after I graduated college and moved back to Cleveland, I told a friend I'd go to the Indians game with him, but wasn't going to carpool with him because I was at University Circle at the time and would just take the Red line. He didn't know the red line existed! Dude grew up not out in the exurbs, but Cleveland Heights!!
I say it's inferiority because a lot of people in Cleveland visit other cities and say "This is way better than Cleveland" or "Cleveland doesn't have this or that." And, they feel why can't Cleveland have what those cities have. Some may think the cities that are hyped up by the national media are the best and since Cleveland is also on the "Top 10 Worst" rankings, are the worst. Also, a lot of people move to other cities talk negatively about Cleveland to other people in their new cities and those people in those new cities take those people's word as gospel. Clevelanders grew up with a negative impression of the city mainly because of family, friends, media or hearsay.
Cleveland has probably suffered more than any other major US city in the last 60 years save for Detroit. That kind of trauma just doesn't go away due to new restaurants, sports, a half dozen downtown theaters, and some residential conversions.
Most cities took a big tumble during the 50s-80s; the difference is they have almost all rebounded (to varying degree) except for Cleveland (and again Detroit). A beautified downtown and seven or eight decent neighborhoods (all of which still have unacceptable crime rates and tensions save for maybe Little Italy/University Circle, Bratenahl and perhaps Edgewater) are really the only visible progress. It's just not enough.
And then you factor in a number of collapsing east side suburbs. It's just really sad.
I've known people in Greater Cleveland who are accessible to the Rapid, yet never set foot on it then, worse yet, travel to other transit-oriented cities and ride their trains and buses all day/every day. I just shake my head.
This is so true. How many of my friends have spent a weekend in New York or DC and just been blown away by being able to take a train 3 stops. "Cleveland doesn't have anything like that." Not that they'd use it if it did. But regardless, while the expanse of RTA is indeed less than Chicago, NYC, Boston, DC, etc, I think it is pretty appropriate for the size of the city.
Cleveland has probably suffered more than any other major US city in the last 60 years save for Detroit. That kind of trauma just doesn't go away due to new restaurants, sports, a half dozen downtown theaters, and some residential conversions.
Most cities took a big tumble during the 50s-80s; the difference is they have almost all rebounded (to varying degree) except for Cleveland (and again Detroit). A beautified downtown and seven or eight decent neighborhoods (all of which still have unacceptable crime rates and tensions save for maybe Little Italy/University Circle, Bratenahl and perhaps Edgewater) are really the only visible progress. It's just not enough.
And then you factor in a number of collapsing east side suburbs. It's just really sad.
This is so true. How many of my friends have spent a weekend in New York or DC and just been blown away by being able to take a train 3 stops. "Cleveland doesn't have anything like that." Not that they'd use it if it did. But regardless, while the expanse of RTA is indeed less than Chicago, NYC, Boston, DC, etc, I think it is pretty appropriate for the size of the city.
Absolutely. The common cry here is: "the Rapid doesn't go anywhere." Hmmm. I know that, Saturday morning of Memorial Day weekend after my lady and I picked up a friend in Beachwood, the 3 of us parked near the end of the Blue Line, grabbed all day passes (only $5.50 each, a steal for any major transit system) and:
-rode to lively Shaker Square for the Saturday Farmer's Market, then breakfast at Yours Truly.
- hopped back aboard to Tower City for a quick transfer for a Red Line hop over the river to Ohio City and a packed (as usual) West Side Market, bustling W. 25 (and stop for a craft beer), and strolled through the OC Victorian houses -- our guest, first time Cleveland visitor was blown away by this, and the City in general.
- back to the Red Line, for downtown/TC transfer to the Waterfront Line (quite a few WFL passengers for a change for the Taste of Summer Festival in the Flats, even though RTA literature as well as the Flats East Bank RE corp made no mention of the Rapid but solely touted the corporate-funded free Trolleys) -- but rode over to E. 9th show are guest a snapshot of the Rock Hall and 9th Street pier area -- outdoor concert at the Rock Hall, lots of people, down the pier was hopping with folks headed to the Goodtime III boat ride, paddle boats and jet skis, and those eating at the Nuevo Mexican Restaurant and just strolling around enjoying the environment.
-- back to the Waterfront Line to Flats East Bank, the festival, food, all the restaurants, boaters, etc, etc, that makes the Flats unique and exciting... By the time we were done (including some burst of rain drops), it was night time, and the Flats was even crazier! Unfortunately the Waterfront Line had stopped by 7p, hours earlier, so we rode the Trolley back to Public Square, to the Blue Line, and home...
And after all that, there were plenty of places by rail we didn't go. Such for old worn., out negative Cleveland urban legends.
Absolutely. The common cry here is: "the Rapid doesn't go anywhere." Hmmm. I know that, Saturday morning of Memorial Day weekend after my lady and I picked up a friend in Beachwood, the 3 of us parked near the end of the Blue Line, grabbed all day passes (only $5.50 each, a steal for any major transit system) and:
-rode to lively Shaker Square for the Saturday Farmer's Market, then breakfast at Yours Truly.
- hopped back aboard to Tower City for a quick transfer for a Red Line hop over the river to Ohio City and a packed (as usual) West Side Market, bustling W. 25 (and stop for a craft beer), and strolled through the OC Victorian houses -- our guest, first time Cleveland visitor was blown away by this, and the City in general.
- back to the Red Line, for downtown/TC transfer to the Waterfront Line (quite a few WFL passengers for a change for the Taste of Summer Festival in the Flats, even though RTA literature as well as the Flats East Bank RE corp made no mention of the Rapid but solely touted the corporate-funded free Trolleys) -- but rode over to E. 9th show are guest a snapshot of the Rock Hall and 9th Street pier area -- outdoor concert at the Rock Hall, lots of people, down the pier was hopping with folks headed to the Goodtime III boat ride, paddle boats and jet skis, and those eating at the Nuevo Mexican Restaurant and just strolling around enjoying the environment.
-- back to the Waterfront Line to Flats East Bank, the festival, food, all the restaurants, boaters, etc, etc, that makes the Flats unique and exciting... By the time we were done (including some burst of rain drops), it was night time, and the Flats was even crazier! Unfortunately the Waterfront Line had stopped by 7p, hours earlier, so we rode the Trolley back to Public Square, to the Blue Line, and home...
And after all that, there were plenty of places by rail we didn't go. Such for old worn., out negative Cleveland urban legends.
There should be nothing remarkable about your story here, but sadly, there is. Not many folks would think about NOT driving from Beachwood. $5.50 all day pass is also insane. Here in Boston I think all-day passes are $13. Was just in Montreal last week, there it was I believe $12. But anyway, I used to have days like that a lot too, living in University Heights. I would take the green line to Shaker Square and hang out at Dewey's for an hour, then might take the rapid out to W 25 or W 65 and meet some friends who lived over there. Then I'd get back on and head to my evening/night job downtown. The most unfortunate part was getting back at night. If I wanted to go back to 25 or something and hang out I would miss the last rapid.
I get that frequency isn't every 5 minutes on the rapid. But at the same time, if you just look at NextConnect, you'll know when the next one is coming and can plan accordingly. People do that even in larger cities with higher frequency of trains and buses.
There should be nothing remarkable about your story here, but sadly, there is. Not many folks would think about NOT driving from Beachwood. $5.50 all day pass is also insane. Here in Boston I think all-day passes are $13. Was just in Montreal last week, there it was I believe $12. But anyway, I used to have days like that a lot too, living in University Heights. I would take the green line to Shaker Square and hang out at Dewey's for an hour, then might take the rapid out to W 25 or W 65 and meet some friends who lived over there. Then I'd get back on and head to my evening/night job downtown. The most unfortunate part was getting back at night. If I wanted to go back to 25 or something and hang out I would miss the last rapid.
I get that frequency isn't every 5 minutes on the rapid. But at the same time, if you just look at NextConnect, you'll know when the next one is coming and can plan accordingly. People do that even in larger cities with higher frequency of trains and buses.
Yep, I use NextConnect all the time; great feature, much better than I've experienced in much larger transit cities like Philly (the time-promptness problems on Philly's massive, but infrequent train scheduled Regional Rail system are infuriating at times). Of course, we would welcome extended rail here, we could use it-- I believe a couple Rapid extensions plus reviving long-lost commuter rail would make sense for our region. But I'm also a realist in considering the devastating population losses Cleveland has suffered over the last 50 years and realizing how fortunate we are to have the Rapid system we've got; consider that it was first started just before WWI and grew rapidly (no pun) after just after WWII; both times when Cleveland was exploding population-wise, exceeding 900K in 1950.. We're almost 1/3 of that population, now, Cleveland having among the steepest pop declines percentage-wise of all American big cities... Fortunately recent counts and projections have Cleveland's population declines slowing significantly to the extent where, maybe, the city will be growing... hopefully soon.
But our rail system, which often must be used in tandem with connecting buses or some significant walks, at times, is obviously not comparable to Chicago, Boston or Philly; but then, we've never (even in our top pop days) had their density or size (metro-wise, in Boston's case). When you compare us to more comparable cities of more mid-size population and density with primary 1-2 family homes on individual lots (ie: Milwaukee, KC, Buffalo, St. Louis, Minn-St. Paul, Indy, Pittsburgh, etc), Cleveland's RTA and Rapid really shine. I've known of several friends/associates who live in places like downtown, U. Circle, Shaker Square, Ohio City and Van Aken/Shaker, who don't have cars and have enjoyed Cleveland life quite well -- and without the huge hassle and expense of car ownership. This really speaks well for the City.
I tell my wife should we live near RTA, we are not going to have a car. If we travel outside of CLE, we'll rent one for the day. Annually, we'll save thousands.
I prefer downtown, but some of these improving areas are very near RTA stations.
I tell my wife should we live near RTA, we are not going to have a car. If we travel outside of CLE, we'll rent one for the day. Annually, we'll save thousands.
I prefer downtown, but some of these improving areas are very near RTA stations.
Traditional renting is the best option for long trips, but if you just need a car for irregular trips around the Cleveland metro a few times a week/month, look into Zip Car.
Traditional renting is the best option for long trips, but if you just need a car for irregular trips around the Cleveland metro a few times a week/month, look into Zip Car.
This is the best idea in any city. No city has a public transportation system that will take everyone everywhere at every hour. As a non car owner all my life I can vouch for that fact. Many people now supplement their public transportation rides with Uber or Lyft. Renting is still a good idea.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
