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Thanks, QCongress. For good points, don't forget the Cleveland Symphony and Art Museum. I usually lump those along with Playhouse Square into "cultural amenities comparable to much larger cities".
I like it that I can go to a symphony concert comparable to what I'd hear in NY, Boston, or Chicago!
I forgot to mention those I was just rambling. Also, I like the Western Reserve Historical Society (I love looking at the old fashioned cars) and the Natural History Museum; the Cleveland Public Library gives away free passes to it every month.
I agree with you completely. I started reading this forum with a completely open mind. I'd already visited Cleveland about half a dozen times and have been seriously considering it as a place to retire. But I must confess that reading about the inferiority complex is starting to wear on me and make me have some doubts about the city. Not enough to change my mind (at this point) but enough to make me wonder if I need to look a little deeper before I make any final decisions.
It seems that there are various types of people on this forum:
Native Clevelanders who are defensive about it--it makes me wonder why and if there's something bad about Cleveland that I need to know
Native Clevelanders who are less defensive but hesitant to admit that there's anything wrong with it (when face it--ALL cities have some issues)--it makes me wonder what they're hiding
People who have lived on the Coasts and/or Chicago and are aware of the issues living in the so-called "cool" cities and are prepared to give Cleveland a chance (count me in!)
I would appreciate an honest assessment of Cleveland: the good, the bad, and the ugly.
ALL cities have problems--it's just a question of which ones you can live with and does the good outweigh the bad. Everybody's situation will be different. I am sure my perception as a person getting close to retirement will be very different from a young person who is just starting out.
I will state my point of view which comes from someone who has lived just about half her life in Chicago, first part and a little more than half the PNW, the second. Now living in Cleveland, which, like Portland was by choice.
I don’t want to make comparisons and I don’t believe it’s necessary. My reason for leaving Portland was because of necessity. Way too high a COL. As I was approaching retirement age, that along with some bad financial setbacks as well as health issues showed me the handwriting on the wall. I could never retire early in Portland but I would more than likely die early if I remained. Another conversation I had with a young woman who choose Cleveland because of a job offer from the CC to relocate from the Ukraine to the US was for what she believed Cle had to offer besides just a job.
She called cities like Portland “Segregated.” At first I thought she had misused a word but no, she said to her mind when a city has a very high COL and is not very diverse without varied job opportunities in anything except for people with highest education they only want a certain type of person living there. I never thought of it in that light. But I have to add here she was speaking of all cities not just Portland where people looking in from the outside didn’t realize if they didn’t fit in they weren’t welcome.
So, why Cleveland? Like the two women I’ve mentioned, for me it has been a positive experience. I have not only found affordable housing, I have found many benefits for seniors here. I have made friends here, good attitudes, even great ma and pa shops I can remember that used to be in Chicago. Now I realize my situation and circumstances were vastly different from most young people, single or with families looking to relocate here. Someone else can speak to that.
I can say that returning to Chicago was ruled out, too big and too expensive. Okay so why Cleveland? Reasons already given. Here’s my method. I was aware that Cleveland had somewhat of a reputation. But like Chicago, it did not accurately describe the entire city. I knew that because I had lived there. So I was not going to dwell in some comedian, Media or Internet memes to form either my opinions or decisions about Cleveland or any other city.
I studied a bit of Cleveland’s history along with other cities’ stories. Some were better some worse. What I saw in Cleveland was always an attempt at comebacks. I saw a lot of people loving their city even during the bad times. Those who really truly felt or now feels Cleveland is in such a downward spiral for any reason have, will or should leave for any other place they think will suit them better. It is not fair at all for those who support a city to continually have to be challenged by those who do not all the while still living there. And may I add never doing any about those complaints like running for office to try to change what they don’t like.
You can go from statistic to statistic on crime, sports, culture, job opportunities etc making comparisons from city to city. But one thing to remember, stats don’t talk about actual day to day living. They don’t talk about the kind of people you will meet.
Cleveland has worked for me. I hope you will get responses from those who can give you honest answers based on factual experience and not some neurotic hang ups they continue to post on the place where they live. It’s okay to change your mind about Cleveland, just be certain it’s for the right reasons.
Thanks, QCongress. For good points, don't forget the Cleveland Symphony and Art Museum. I usually lump those along with Playhouse Square into "cultural amenities comparable to much larger cities".
I like it that I can go to a symphony concert comparable to what I'd hear in NY, Boston, or Chicago!
I forgot to mention those I was just rambling. Also, I like the Western Reserve Historical Society (I love looking at the old fashioned cars) and the Natural History Museum; the Cleveland Public Library gives away free passes to it every month.
I like the Western Reserve Historical Society, too, but then I always like Historical museums that describe local history. I will say that is one thing we have a ton of on the East Coast, especially Maryland and Virginia (my area has been settled since the early 1600s). Every single little town has some kind of historical society—history is a major attraction here. But the Cleveland historical society is every bit as interesting, if only because it is so different. It’s Midwestern history (which, naturally, would include a lot of old cars!), and I did grow up in the Midwest, after all. To me the history of the Midwest (and the Industrial Revolution) is every bit as important as the Colonial and Civil War history, of which the East is so proud. It all tells the story of who we are as Americans.
Also enjoyed seeing the old cabin at Lakewood Park, again because it’s so different from the types of old buildings we have in the East. To me it’s all American history, and I’ve always found it interesting how different parts of the country got settled, and people kept migrating West.
Haven’t been to the natural history museum yet, but I did go to the science museum with the lake freighter. I particularly enjoyed the latter because I remember freighters EXACTLY like that docking in my home town in Michigan. I might very well have seen that same one! But I never had a chance to actually go on one until I visited Cleveland!
I will state my point of view which comes from someone who has lived just about half her life in Chicago, first part and a little more than half the PNW, the second. Now living in Cleveland, which, like Portland was by choice.
I don’t want to make comparisons and I don’t believe it’s necessary. My reason for leaving Portland was because of necessity. Way too high a COL. As I was approaching retirement age, that along with some bad financial setbacks as well as health issues showed me the handwriting on the wall. I could never retire early in Portland but I would more than likely die early if I remained. Another conversation I had with a young woman who choose Cleveland because of a job offer from the CC to relocate from the Ukraine to the US was for what she believed Cle had to offer besides just a job.
She called cities like Portland “Segregated.” At first I thought she had misused a word but no, she said to her mind when a city has a very high COL and is not very diverse without varied job opportunities in anything except for people with highest education they only want a certain type of person living there. I never thought of it in that light. But I have to add here she was speaking of all cities not just Portland where people looking in from the outside didn’t realize if they didn’t fit in they weren’t welcome.
So, why Cleveland? Like the two women I’ve mentioned, for me it has been a positive experience. I have not only found affordable housing, I have found many benefits for seniors here. I have made friends here, good attitudes, even great ma and pa shops I can remember that used to be in Chicago. Now I realize my situation and circumstances were vastly different from most young people, single or with families looking to relocate here. Someone else can speak to that.
I can say that returning to Chicago was ruled out, too big and too expensive. Okay so why Cleveland? Reasons already given. Here’s my method. I was aware that Cleveland had somewhat of a reputation. But like Chicago, it did not accurately describe the entire city. I knew that because I had lived there. So I was not going to dwell in some comedian, Media or Internet memes to form either my opinions or decisions about Cleveland or any other city.
I studied a bit of Cleveland’s history along with other cities’ stories. Some were better some worse. What I saw in Cleveland was always an attempt at comebacks. I saw a lot of people loving their city even during the bad times. Those who really truly felt or now feels Cleveland is in such a downward spiral for any reason have, will or should leave for any other place they think will suit them better. It is not fair at all for those who support a city to continually have to be challenged by those who do not all the while still living there. And may I add never doing any about those complaints like running for office to try to change what they don’t like.
You can go from statistic to statistic on crime, sports, culture, job opportunities etc making comparisons from city to city. But one thing to remember, stats don’t talk about actual day to day living. They don’t talk about the kind of people you will meet.
Cleveland has worked for me. I hope you will get responses from those who can give you honest answers based on factual experience and not some neurotic hang ups they continue to post on the place where they live. It’s okay to change your mind about Cleveland, just be certain it’s for the right reasons.
Thanks for your well thought out response, Minerva! Lots of food for thought there! Wish I had more time to respond—maybe later. But, don’t worry—I haven’t given up on Cleveland yet!
I would appreciate an honest assessment of Cleveland: the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Personally, I think anybody who reads this entire forum, both Cleveland and the Ohio forum, would get a good assessment of the "good, the bad, and the ugly," especially if you go back several years.
If you enjoy great cultural institutions, beautiful parks, four seasons of weather and a relatively low cost of living, Greater Cleveland is very tough to beat.
As with much of America, there is a social and economic underclass, greatly the creation of the nation's paucity of economic opportunities for those lacking skills in great demand.
Greater Cleveland's once immense industrial capacity has been wasted by inane national industrial and taxation policies (and I don't see either the Republicans or the Democrats taking the steps needed to restore sanity).
I think Ohio and Greater Cleveland's biggest problems are inept political and media leadership. The Plain Dealer/Cleveland.com is a right wing rag masquerading as a balanced news source. E.g., go back and read its endorsement editorial of John Kasich over Ed Fitzgerald. Kasich allegedly was endorsed because Fitzgerald had been driving several years without a driver's license (a politically tragic and inexcusable action), but also because of a personal slime campaign orchestrated by the Plain Dealer because Fitzgerald was found in early morning hours talking to a female trade delegate in a car in a parking lot. The Plain Dealer/Cleveland.com insinuated that they were in the back seat of the car, even though Cleveland.com itself reported that the police officer who investigated said they were in the front seat of the car. Nobody raised the issue that this attack on Fitzgerald was misogynistic. Fitzgerald was driving the delegate back to her hotel after an early morning party attended by members of both Cuyahoga County and Irish trade delegations. There would have been no issue of if the two persons talking in the parking lot were both men.
Nobody raised the issue that Ohio official record privacy laws were violated in order to provide the information about Fitzgerald's lack of a driver license. Unlike with other similar incidents in the past, Cleveland.com didn't insist on an investigation to determine the person who violated the state's privacy laws.
Never mentioned were Kasich/Republican policies to slash local government funds, to slash/eliminate mass transit funding, unwillingness to maintain Greater Cleveland's lakeshore state parks (resulting in the Cleveland Metroparks assuming responsibility and raising property taxes to take on the task), the unwillingness of Kasich to declare Lake Erie impaired and to encourage the Ohio AND the federal EPA to eliminate the agricultural pollution (still NOT an issue championed by the Plain Dealer/Cleveland.com) poisoning the lake. To this day, Cleveland.com/Plain Dealer has ignored the economic anchor hung around the northern Ohio economy by the Republican toll road (which Kasich helped create by leveraging the Ohio Turnpike). The endorsement issue downplayed the ugliness of JobsOhio -- the secretive JobsOhio program has diverted a massive amount of Ohio tax funds to a Republican-run fund to secretly provide funding to unknown private individuals (Cleveland.com endorsed legislators and Supreme Court justices who arguably sidestepped the Ohio Constitution's ban on providing unencumbered state support to private businesses and individuals)
Cleveland.com/Plain Dealer strangely ignored Fitzgerald's accomplishments as the mayor of Lakewood or as Cuyahoga County's first elected executive. Most Cleveland.com readers never knew during the campaign that Fitzgerald was an ex-FBI agent or massively and successfully reformed Cuyahoga County's government.
Strangely, no northern Ohio politician has attacked the Republican toll road (actually there was one Republican whose name escapes me who excellently framed the reasons that leveraging the Ohio Turnpike to fund indirectly state-wide transportation projects was unacceptable). From the Toledo Blade:
Indeed, many northern Ohio politicians stupidly supported the leveraging of the Turnpike. Likely, in Cleveland's case, it was because Kasich had said that without the funds from the Turnpike, Greater Cleveland's vital Innerbelt bridges wouldn't be replaced for a decade or more because he wouldn't support raising the state's gasoline taxes to fund vital state infrastructure needs. Who would endorse such a candidate???
With Cleveland.com's recent sly endorsement of Dennis Kucinich, Cleveland.com/Chris Quinn already has served notice that it will ignore the issues in the upcoming gubernatorial race and instead attack Richard Cordray's alleged lack of leadership qualities.
<<For Democrats in this year's race for Ohio governor, the choice should come down to passion, vision and an ability to grasp the bully pulpit to inspire Ohioans about the need for change.
Only one candidate fulfills those criteria: Dennis Kucinich, the former Cleveland mayor and nine-term congressman.
Ohio's next governor must be a fighter -- a fighter for greater equity, justice and common sense; a fighter for the state's urban centers; and a fighter against the moribund thinking on education, diversity, economic opportunity and home-rule rights that's held Ohio back for too long.>>
Where's our modern-day Tom Johnson when we so desperately need him? Such a politician's first task should be to expose Chris Quinn's agenda as President and Editor of Cleveland.com.
Personally, I think anybody who reads this entire forum, both Cleveland and the Ohio forum, would get a good assessment of the "good, the bad, and the ugly," especially if you go back several years.
If you enjoy great cultural institutions, beautiful parks, four seasons of weather and a relatively low cost of living, Greater Cleveland is very tough to beat.
As with much of America, there is a social and economic underclass, greatly the creation of the nation's paucity of economic opportunities for those lacking skills in great demand.
Greater Cleveland's once immense industrial capacity has been wasted by inane national industrial and taxation policies (and I don't see either the Republicans or the Democrats taking the steps needed to restore sanity).
I think Ohio and Greater Cleveland's biggest problems are inept political and media leadership. The Plain Dealer/Cleveland.com is a right wing rag masquerading as a balanced news source. E.g., go back and read its endorsement editorial of John Kasich over Ed Fitzgerald. Kasich allegedly was endorsed because Fitzgerald had been driving several years without a driver's license (a politically tragic and inexcusable action), but also because of a personal slime campaign orchestrated by the Plain Dealer because Fitzgerald was found in early morning hours talking to a female trade delegate in a car in a parking lot. The Plain Dealer/Cleveland.com insinuated that they were in the back seat of the car, even though Cleveland.com itself reported that the police officer who investigated said they were in the front seat of the car. Nobody raised the issue that this attack on Fitzgerald was misogynistic. Fitzgerald was driving the delegate back to her hotel after an early morning party attended by members of both Cuyahoga County and Irish trade delegations. There would have been no issue of if the two persons talking in the parking lot were both men.
Nobody raised the issue that Ohio official record privacy laws were violated in order to provide the information about Fitzgerald's lack of a driver license. Unlike with other similar incidents in the past, Cleveland.com didn't insist on an investigation to determine the person who violated the state's privacy laws.
Never mentioned were Kasich/Republican policies to slash local government funds, to slash/eliminate mass transit funding, unwillingness to maintain Greater Cleveland's lakeshore state parks (resulting in the Cleveland Metroparks assuming responsibility and raising property taxes to take on the task), the unwillingness of Kasich to declare Lake Erie impaired and to encourage the Ohio AND the federal EPA to eliminate the agricultural pollution (still NOT an issue championed by the Plain Dealer/Cleveland.com) poisoning the lake. To this day, Cleveland.com/Plain Dealer has ignored the economic anchor hung around the northern Ohio economy by the Republican toll road (which Kasich helped create by leveraging the Ohio Turnpike). The endorsement issue downplayed the ugliness of JobsOhio -- the secretive JobsOhio program has diverted a massive amount of Ohio tax funds to a Republican-run fund to secretly provide funding to unknown private individuals (Cleveland.com endorsed legislators and Supreme Court justices who arguably sidestepped the Ohio Constitution's ban on providing unencumbered state support to private businesses and individuals)
Cleveland.com/Plain Dealer strangely ignored Fitzgerald's accomplishments as the mayor of Lakewood or as Cuyahoga County's first elected executive. Most Cleveland.com readers never knew during the campaign that Fitzgerald was an ex-FBI agent or massively and successfully reformed Cuyahoga County's government.
Strangely, no northern Ohio politician has attacked the Republican toll road (actually there was one Republican whose name escapes me who excellently framed the reasons that leveraging the Ohio Turnpike to fund indirectly state-wide transportation projects was unacceptable). From the Toledo Blade:
Indeed, many northern Ohio politicians stupidly supported the leveraging of the Turnpike. Likely, in Cleveland's case, it was because Kasich had said that without the funds from the Turnpike, Greater Cleveland's vital Innerbelt bridges wouldn't be replaced for a decade or more because he wouldn't support raising the state's gasoline taxes to fund vital state infrastructure needs. Who would endorse such a candidate???
With Cleveland.com's recent sly endorsement of Dennis Kucinich, Cleveland.com/Chris Quinn already has served notice that it will ignore the issues in the upcoming gubernatorial race and instead attack Richard Cordray's alleged lack of leadership qualities.
<<For Democrats in this year's race for Ohio governor, the choice should come down to passion, vision and an ability to grasp the bully pulpit to inspire Ohioans about the need for change.
Only one candidate fulfills those criteria: Dennis Kucinich, the former Cleveland mayor and nine-term congressman.
Ohio's next governor must be a fighter -- a fighter for greater equity, justice and common sense; a fighter for the state's urban centers; and a fighter against the moribund thinking on education, diversity, economic opportunity and home-rule rights that's held Ohio back for too long.>>
Where's our modern-day Tom Johnson when we so desperately need him? Such a politician's first task should be to expose Chris Quinn's agenda as President and Editor of Cleveland.com.
Great points. Especially on The Plain Dealer/cleveland.com, I don't really read that much these days because it feels as if they have an agenda now as oppose to back in the day. The comments section is a bad free-for-all; there's rarely healthy discussions. It's just non-stop trolling from either people within the city, people within the 'brubs or people outside of the city.
Well as I was riding the Healthline today the woman next to me remarked that there are so many new apartment buildings going up downtown. I said that was good and she said she looked at an efficiency which was 1000 or 1100 plus utilities. She said 2BRs are about 2000. She was perturbed at the rents which seemed high to her and in fact I was surprised too. So maybe Cleveland isn't poor old Cleveland anymore. The glitz may be starting.
My 2bd, 2bath on St. Clair and W 6th is available for $1500. Updated kitchen and a GREAT view of Public Sq. I am having trouble finding a tenant...been 2 weeks and my current tenant moves out next week.
We were paying almost that much for a sort of run down janky apartment in Shaker Square, and I saw some even worse duplexes in Cleveland Heights in that price range. I think adding some nicer supply to the rental market is a good thing. It will either drive down rents in these older places with lacking maintenance, or force the owners to make improvements.
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Updated kitchen and a GREAT view of Public Sq. I am having trouble finding a tenant...been 2 weeks and my current tenant moves out next week. 
