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I'm talking about a tiny area like Midtown Manhattan, which is roughly 4 sq miles and completely dominates the entire region. Tokyo, London, and Paris do not have a tiny area like this that sucks up all the energy. Again, who are you kidding?
That's absurd.
Lower Manhattan and it's surroundings from SoHo on down are in no way, shape, nor form "dominated by" Midtown. I can agree Midtown is a larger place but we've been over this that Downtown's a successfully crafted district. SoHo, Battery City, NoLita, LES, and TriBeCa are some of the most successful neighborhoods in the world and they're in Downtown's sphere of influence. NoHo, Chelsea, Clinton again some of the most successful neighborhoods in the world are Midtown's sphere. Midtown is more vibrant than Downtown but you're exaggerating by making it seem desolate in comparison.
Both districts are equally as desirable and equally as successful.
I can see why you named yourself nslander now, because of the way you're slandering and butchering up Tokyo's reputation.
LA is nothing like Tokyo, a third of the size and density of the Tokyo region. Have you ever been to Tokyo? It blows LA away in size and scale, it blows everything on this side of the world away, Mexico City and NYC included. You Angelenos think this multiple centers and districts are unique to LA, in our area there's Downtown Brooklyn, Downtown Newark, Stamford, Long Island City, White Plains, Jersey City, Hoboken, for starters and I'm willing to bet they can all compete and surpass the other districts of the LA area.
You're only similarity with Tokyo are the mountains but I guess that makes LA more like Seattle too? Shinjuku (Tokyo's core) is significantly more in line with Manhattan than anything in LA.
Bazinga! That must have come to you during a deep meditative state induced by the thin, rarified air of Bennett Park.
I’m glad you agree LA’s geography is more similar to Tokyo than Manhattan. Otherwise, not only are you comparing apples to oranges, you’re insisting the orange has a secret desire to become an apple, rather than a larger orange.
That's absurd. Lower Manhattan and it's surroundings from SoHo on down are in no way, shape, nor form "dominated by" Midtown. I can agree Midtown is a larger place but we've been over this that Downtown's a successfully crafted district. SoHo, Battery City, NoLita, and TriBeCa are some of the most successful neighborhoods in the world and they're in Downtown's sphere of influence. NoHo, Chelsea, Clinton again some of the most successful neighborhoods in the world are Midtown's sphere.
It's possible to live and work in New York City without having to enter Manhattan. That's not the point. Midtown still dominates. Lower Manhattan has its pull, but nothing compared to Midtown, and that's only as a job center. As a cultural/entertainment center it is completely blown away. Where do you think the bulk of the 47 million tourists who visit NY spend the majority of their time?
Last edited by RaymondChandlerLives; 08-24-2012 at 05:39 PM..
It's possible to live and work in New York City without having to enter Manhattan. That's not the point. Midtown still dominates. Lower Manhattan has its pull, but nothing compared to Midtown, and that's only as a job center. As a cultural/entertainment center it is completely blown away. Where do you think the bulk of the 47 million tourists who visit NY spend the majority of their their time?
Downtown is a much smaller area than Midtown, on top of that it's much narrower and it's limited to how much it can grow. It's completely maxed out to its limit, which is why it's sprouting up. Midtown covers a larger expanse than Downtown.
Downtown's energy comes from surrounding neighborhoods like NoLita, Lower East Side, SoHo, and TriBeCa. I'm sure you've heard of some of these? It's energy is based from Canal and Broadway and the pull Downtown has on areas of Battery City near Bowling Green Park (you know where the Charging Bull is) is significant.
Of course Midtown's where more tourists flock to but the majority of them make their way to Downtown, whose sphere of influence starts south of Houston.
To claim Midtown is the only energetic area of Manhattan is absurd. I agree it's more vibrant but you're making it out to be downtown Orlando here. The Midtown vs Downtown conversation reminds me of the Loop vs Downtown SF comparisons, they're too different in so many ways to compare fairly.
Downtown is the historic core of NYC, it's where the declaration was read, where the revolutionary war was proclaimed over, and where Qashington was inaugurated as president when NYC was the country's capital. Midtown's more vibrant of course but downtowns very vibrant too. I view them as equals.
Because the largest concentration of L.A.'s "hubs" are located in the Central and Westside regions of the Los Angeles Basin. Downtown L.A., Hollywood, Century City, Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, and all along Wilshire Boulevard--they're located in this area. Again, this isn't to say L.A. is similar to those cities, only that it would be better served following the template of a city like Tokyo as far as its public transit.
And when I speak of "all roads leading here" I'm talking about a tiny area like Midtown Manhattan, which is roughly 4 sq miles and completely dominates the entire region. Tokyo, London, and Paris do not have a tiny area like this that sucks up all the energy. Again, who are you kidding?
Not much actually. Yamanote line is about 4.2 miles across and 9 miles north to south at the farthest points so i would guesstimate the total area is about 30 sq miles. Not that much more than Manhattan. There are differences to be sure - it's not only larger, but also lacks the consistent density of Manhattan and the drop in urban intensity outside of Yamanote is not nearly as great as outside of Manhattan -- but on the macro level the two urban areas operate actually quite similarly (though on vastly different scales). The majority of rail lines in the Tokyo area converge on Yamanote, just like they do here on Manhattan and in Ille the France on Paris.
Your observations regarding Midtown Manhattan are incorrect - I can only assume you don't know much about NY. Like I said, what all the major world class cities have in common - and what LA sorely lacks -- is an urban center of gravity. These centers may vary in size and urban intensity but in the context of the entire urban area they perform very similar roles.
It's possible to live and work in New York City without having to enter Manhattan. That's not the point. Midtown still dominates. Lower Manhattan has its pull, but nothing compared to Midtown, and that's only as a job center. As a cultural/entertainment center it is completely blown away. Where do you think the bulk of the 47 million tourists who visit NY spend the majority of their time?
Midtown dominates as a job center, and it does very well for having non-office related things. But many of the intersting attractions, nightlife, shopping aren't that concentrated in Midtown. Its spread out over much of Manhattan, mainly below 59th street.
Midtown dominates as a job center, and it does very well for having non-office related things. But many of the intersting attractions, nightlife, shopping aren't that concentrated in Midtown. Its spread out over much of Manhattan, mainly below 59th street.
Yeah, I would agree with this.
Although I feel like the lines are blurred at this point, I consider everything below Houston as Downtown and everything north from Houston to 59th and the southernmost section of Central Park as Midtown. The neighborhoods in those zones I feel can be separated into two spheres, one for Downtown and the other for Midtown.
It's arguable though, I can also see a line between Midtown and Downtown at 14th rather than Houston.
So this thread is to call out those who talk/look down on other cities because their cities are bigger or "more urban". I agree, it's arrogant and pointless other than trying to stroke the ego. But, what do we end up with? A couple of NYC boosters ranting about their "gold" urban standard and condescending to any and all who disagree.
I think we have the REAL culprits: New Yorkers.
I really wish some of these conversations were face to face.
Midtown dominates as a job center, and it does very well for having non-office related things. But many of the intersting attractions, nightlife, shopping aren't that concentrated in Midtown. Its spread out over much of Manhattan, mainly below 59th street.
There is also plenty of action (as well as tourist attractions) Uptown as well as in Brooklyn. The notion that everything in NYC is centered on Midtown Manhattan is ridiculous. Brooklyn has some of the hottest neighborhoods in the city right now and Downtown Brooklyn is a major employment center in its own right. It would be more accurate to say that most of the action is centered on Manhattan (south of 96th street) and a few adjacent neighborhoods. Thats an area of unmatched urban intensity (by US standards at least) and it is far from small in size.
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