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Wow this thread has gotten insane. Do y'all have nothing better to do with your lives than just sit here and argue about some of the most stupid stuff? Talk about wasting your time. Glad I have a life.
I guess you are right. Few people think of Central Park, the Statue of Liberty, Wall Street, Soho, Greenwich Village, the Met, Columbia & NYU, Chinatown, Little Italy, Williamsburg etc when they think of NY. You are a funny dude. You ever been to NY?
Thanks for the math. I said "farthest points". The Yamanote Line forms a triangle so the actual area would be smaller. Anyway the issue is not so much size (the city of Paris is even larger) but density and function in relation to the rest of the metro area. The Yamanote loop probably has a population density of about 50,000 psm, over 4m jobs and 10m+ daily subway and rail riders in a metro area of 35m people with 60% public transit share. Not sure how that can serve as a useful blueprint for LA but we can all dream.
So Manhattan is the more apt model for Los Angeles' transit development?
I guess you are right. Few people think of Central Park, the Statue of Liberty, Wall Street, Soho, Greenwich Village, the Met, Columbia & NYU, Chinatown, Little Italy, Williamsburg etc when they think of NY. You are a funny dude. You ever been to NY?
Thanks for the math. I said "farthest points". The Yamanote Line forms a triangle so the actual area would be smaller. Anyway the issue is not so much size (the city of Paris is even larger) but density and function in relation to the rest of the metro area. The Yamanote loop probably has a population density of about 50,000 psm, over 4m jobs and 10m+ daily subway and rail riders in a metro area of 35m people with 60% public transit share. Not sure how that can serve as a useful blueprint for LA but we can all dream.
Okay, let's try this again.
In the area bounded by 59th street to the North, and 34th street to the South you have: Times Square and the theater district, The Empire State Building, The Chrysler Building, MSG, Grand Central Station, the UN Building, Rockefeller Center, Radio City Music Hall, MOMA, The New York Public Library, St. Patrick's Cathedral, Time Warner Center, Macy's, the luxury shops on 5th Avenue, famous hotels like Waldorf Astoria and The Plaza Hotel, Penn Station, Carnegie Hall, and much more. Not to mention the sights and sounds that most common people (not city-data people; we're lunatics) think of when they think NYC: a sea of skyscrapers, large crowds, honking horns, hot dog venders, neon lights, and subway cars rumbling underneath. Not to mention BY FAR the largest concentration of jobs in the region. All in an area that is, at most, 4 square miles in size.
Yes, there are other places of interest in NYC (not sure if Williamsburg is one of them, lol). Yes, there are other job centers. But the largest concentration of both, BY FAR, are located in Midtown Manhattan. It is by far the most concentrated city I've seen in this manner. In that sense, it's different from London, Paris, and definitely Tokyo.
I guess you are right. Few people think of Central Park, the Statue of Liberty, Wall Street, Soho, Greenwich Village, the Met, Columbia & NYU, Chinatown, Little Italy, Williamsburg etc when they think of NY. You are a funny dude. You ever been to NY?
Thanks for the math. I said "farthest points". The Yamanote Line forms a triangle so the actual area would be smaller. Anyway the issue is not so much size (the city of Paris is even larger) but density and function in relation to the rest of the metro area. The Yamanote loop probably has a population density of about 50,000 psm, over 4m jobs and 10m+ daily subway and rail riders in a metro area of 35m people with 60% public transit share. Not sure how that can serve as a useful blueprint for LA but we can all dream.
Sounds insignificant. Outside of 5th Avenue, Madame Liberty, and Times Square who cares less significant places like Williamsburg, NYU, or Greenwich Village?
New York, New York is a one trick pony. All of those places you named are second rate. Just accept it.
In the area bounded by 59th street to the North, and 34th street to the South you have: Times Square and the theater district, The Empire State Building, The Chrysler Building, MSG, Grand Central Station, the UN Building, Rockefeller Center, Radio City Music Hall, MOMA, The New York Public Library, St. Patrick's Cathedral, Time Warner Center, Macy's, the luxury shops on 5th Avenue, famous hotels like Waldorf Astoria and The Plaza Hotel, Penn Station, Carnegie Hall, and much more. Not to mention the sights and sounds that most common people (not city-data people; we're lunatics) think of when they think NYC: a sea of skyscrapers, large crowds, honking horns, hot dog venders, neon lights, and subway cars rumbling underneath. Not to mention BY FAR the largest concentration of jobs in the region. All in an area that is, at most, 4 square miles in size.
Yes, there are other places of interest in NYC (not sure if Williamsburg is one of them, lol). Yes, there are other job centers. But the largest concentration of both, BY FAR, are located in Midtown Manhattan. It is by far the most concentrated city I've seen in this manner. In that sense, it's different from London, Paris, and definitely Tokyo.
LOL. This is so off the mark. You barely know anything about NYC little less Paris.
The entire ile-de-France, as Fitzrovian stated, is dominated by about 5 or 6 square miles of the City of Paris. It's where more than 20 percent of all employment in the region exists. This is comparable to the approximately 20 percent figure for employment in the New York region south of 59th Street.
Paris CBD 1,025,000 5,109,107 20.1% 1990
Paris La Defence 140,000 5,109,107 2.7% 2000
New York South of 59 St.+++ 1,967,000 9,357,218 21.0% 1990
Los Angeles Freeway Loop+ 310,321 6,813,757 4.6% 1990
Los Angeles Long Beach CBD 34,620 6,813,757 0.5% 1990
Los Angeles Los Angeles CBD Core 167,297 6,813,757 2.5% 1990
As you can see from the above data, La Defense is really more akin to a Tyson's Corner, VA on steroids. It's common for Americans to visit Paris, view La Defense from atop L'arc de Triomphe, and assume that that's the main central business district. That's understandable given that there's not really a whole lot of differentiation between residential and commercial structures in Paris. When Americans see skyscrapers, we automatically think "Downtown!" But the area around the Champs and Place de la Concorde is where the bulk of the employment is in the region.
If your job transferred you to Paris, you'd have a 20 percent likelihood of working within a 1.5 mile radius of the Louvre, Musee d'Orsay, the Royal Palace, the Eiffel Tower, Le Champs Elysee, Trocadero, Place de La Concorde, etc. All of those attractions can be visited very easily on foot, especially around this time of year (which is the best time to go, imo). So yeah, pretty much all of the action in Paris is found within a very small area. The city is about 2,000 years old, and since commuting by 14-lane superhighways was not much of an option for guys like Robespierre and Danton, the city had to be compact.
So in sum, it's rather clear that a very small area of Paris serves as the epicenter of a much larger region.
What mode of thinking suggests that you cant have a life while also posting once in a 570+ post thread?
Clearly, that one quick post just shot his entire life down, eh?
Let NY and LA do what they do best and bicker about bull****, while other cities (notably Chicago) go back to just minding their business and do their thing. The more attractive thing I think.
Let NY and LA do what they do best and bicker about bull****, while other cities (notably Chicago) go back to just minding their business and do their thing. The more attractive thing I think.
NY and LA will debate til the end of time.
Agreed. This is the one debate where even Chicago is brushed to the side and considered an after thought.
You don't see that very often on city-data.
Sounds insignificant. Outside of 5th Avenue, Madame Liberty, and Times Square who cares less significant places like Williamsburg, NYU, or Greenwich Village?
New York, New York is a one trick pony. All of those places you named are second rate. Just accept it.
Why? Because Bay Arean's the authority on what's considered significant or insignificant?
What a joke.
It's obvious most of you Californians have never been to NYC before, at least the ones repeatedly dismissing everything not in Midtown. Especially the ones acting like Downtown Manhattan is a joke like Downtown LA. Lower Manhattan is structurally the most urban place in all of North America. The original post of NYC, obviously given its age it has limits on how large it can be. It's the most condensed place in all of the US and it's the historic heart of NYC where the declaration was read at Battery Park City/Bowling Green thus officially ending the revolution, where Washington was inaugurated as the FIRST president of the US, where New York became the first capital of the country, and where freedom was heard around the world. I'm not even going to get into wall street because if I do, it will make your downtown look even more insignificant by comparison.
The people that visit Times Square the the people like you, marveled by the big city and it overwhelms you. That tiny area consumes your time, handicapping you from seeing the rest of this gigantic city. Keep it that way, we could do with less obnoxious tourists that know nothing of this fine city in the areas we live, work, and play.
Agreed. This is the one debate where even Chicago is brushed to the side and considered an after thought.
You don't see that very often on city-data.
Heh. Or Philly..
Or any other city really.
If everyone cared about these two, theyd live there, but im going to be a semantic dick and say the overwhelming majority of the country doesnt live in either. 19 million people this, or 13 million that, or whatever. Urban this, highway that. 41 million may care, but theres 269 million others that dont and dont live in NYC or LA.
Its like any sports rivalry beaten to death on ESPN (ie: Yankees, Red Sox. Nobody gives a **** outside Boston and NYC but the rest of the country who largely gives two ****s about it cant escape the exposure of the two)
LOL. This is so off the mark. You barely know anything about NYC little less Paris.
The entire ile-de-France, as Fitzrovian stated, is dominated by about 5 or 6 square miles of the City of Paris. It's where more than 20 percent of all employment in the region exists. This is comparable to the approximately 20 percent figure for employment in the New York region south of 59th Street.
Paris CBD 1,025,000 5,109,107 20.1% 1990
Paris La Defence 140,000 5,109,107 2.7% 2000
New York South of 59 St.+++ 1,967,000 9,357,218 21.0% 1990
Los Angeles Freeway Loop+ 310,321 6,813,757 4.6% 1990
Los Angeles Long Beach CBD 34,620 6,813,757 0.5% 1990
Los Angeles Los Angeles CBD Core 167,297 6,813,757 2.5% 1990
As you can see from the above data, La Defense is really more akin to a Tyson's Corner, VA on steroids. It's common for Americans to visit Paris, view La Defense from atop L'arc de Triomphe, and assume that that's the main central business district. That's understandable given that there's not really a whole lot of differentiation between residential and commercial structures in Paris. When Americans see skyscrapers, we automatically think "Downtown!" But the area around the Champs and Place de la Concorde is where the bulk of the employment is in the region.
If your job transferred you to Paris, you'd have a 20 percent likelihood of working within a 1.5 mile radius of the Louvre, Musee d'Orsay, the Royal Palace, the Eiffel Tower, Le Champs Elysee, Trocadero, Place de La Concorde, etc. All of those attractions can be visited very easily on foot, especially around this time of year (which is the best time to go, imo). So yeah, pretty much all of the action in Paris is found within a very small area. The city is about 2,000 years old, and since commuting by 14-lane superhighways was not much of an option for guys like Robespierre and Danton, the city had to be compact.
So in sum, it's rather clear that a very small area of Paris serves as the epicenter of a much larger region.
Appreciate the perspective and you make a good point, but 20+ year old stats? Surely you can do better than that...
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Okay, let's try this again.
