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Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,279,693 times
Reputation: 1483
I think Wrigley Field in CHICAGO is a big draw to Tourist. A good % of game visitors are actually Tourist to the city. The city won't let it move to the suburbs........ OPPS it's not new....... But still.
Most global cities have their stadiums in the outskirts because they don't want to cause any more congestion or waste any valuable space in there city centers. look at Yankee Stadium, Wembley Stadium, Stade de France and Estadio Azteca.
I don't think a major city should need a big stadium to attract people to its downtown.
Because in 1972, people were fleeing and divesting from urban centers, not developing them.
But a stadium drew tens of thousands people downtown in 1972 just like it draws tens of thousands downtown in 2015. The logic behind stadia makes as much sense then as now (which is to say none, but that's another discussion).
It's hilarious when people talk about stadia supposedly revitalizing cities. For example, in Detroit, they're planning a new hockey arena downtown, which will supposedly lead to some big boom. Except there's already a hockey arena downtown, they're just moving it a few blocks.
So if the first arena downtown didn't lead to some huge boom, why would the second be any different? I don't get it. People visit arenas to see a sporting event. They don't go to shop at Neiman Marcus afterwards. They don't want to live next door and deal with drunks and jerks and honking cars.
Utter nonsense. Having 30-some thousand people in the downtown area several dozen times a year can make a substantial economic impact regardless of whether the downtown is otherwise "pathetic" or not.
Why? A medicore downtown has 100k people working every single day, and they still suck. Why would some occasional sporting event be some huge positive impact? 90% of the people coming to sporting events are just causing congestion and making life miserable for everyone else.
Why do you think all the really vibrant cities have their sports arenas outside the city center? It's because it's a waste of space, and it deadens downtowns. Manhattan only has one- MSG, and that will soon be torn down and relocated. Paris has none. London has none. Rome has none. Arenas are like krypotonite to vibrancy, because they're unused 95% of the time. An apartment building is being used 100% of the time.
But a stadium drew tens of thousands people downtown in 1972 just like it draws tens of thousands downtown in 2015. The logic behind stadia makes as much sense then as now (which is to say none, but that's another discussion).
Except that people are actually interested in spending time in urban environments today, whereas in 1972 urban centers were deteriorating and people working or attending events there largely wanted to do whatever they were doing there and then get the hell out. It's absolutely inarguable that downtown Pittsburgh and the near north side have benefited tremendously from the new stadia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
It's hilarious when people talk about stadia supposedly revitalizing cities. For example, in Detroit, they're planning a new hockey arena downtown, which will supposedly lead to some big boom. Except there's already a hockey arena downtown, they're just moving it a few blocks.
Except there are numerous examples where new stadia have in fact helped lead to a revitalization of the immediate area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
So if the first arena downtown didn't lead to some huge boom, why would the second be any different? I don't get it. People visit arenas to see a sporting event. They don't go to shop at Neiman Marcus afterwards. They don't want to live next door and deal with drunks and jerks and honking cars.
Well that certainly explains why all the storefronts in Wrigleyville are empty, apartment rents are dirt-cheap, and property values have hit rock-bottom.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
Reputation: 5785
Nats Park in DC has sparked a literal boomtown around it since this thread was started four years ago. And coming next is the new DC United stadium three blocks away that will also feature mixed use development surrounding it. There are cranes all over this part of town and it hasn't even hit its peak yet in development. For the OP to say it doesn't count is utterly ridiculous. Unless of course your discounting the fact that it's not actually witinin "downtown" itself.
Why? A medicore downtown has 100k people working every single day, and they still suck. Why would some occasional sporting event be some huge positive impact? 90% of the people coming to sporting events are just causing congestion and making life miserable for everyone else.
Why do you think all the really vibrant cities have their sports arenas outside the city center? It's because it's a waste of space, and it deadens downtowns. Manhattan only has one- MSG, and that will soon be torn down and relocated. Paris has none. London has none. Rome has none. Arenas are like krypotonite to vibrancy, because they're unused 95% of the time. An apartment building is being used 100% of the time.
They don't have to be kryptonite to vibrancy. At the risk of sound repetitive (probably already too late), I'll refer to Wrigleyville as an example yet again. If you want to build a post-war style stadium surrounded by acres of parking lot, then you are correct, a stadium is not likely to contribute to the vibrancy of the area around it. But if you weave it into the urban fabric around it, then it certainly can.
And no, apartments are not being used 100% of the time. Sometimes they sit vacant for months, years, or decades.
Location: Watching half my country turn into Gilead
3,530 posts, read 4,175,298 times
Reputation: 2925
NYC also has the Barclays Center right next to downtown Brooklyn. Not exactly on the "outskirts of the city". Furthermore, MSG, directly in the heart of downtown, IS the most active venue in the entire metropolitan area. So I'm not buying NOLAs argument that global cities dislike downtown locations.
Football stadiums are the worst b/c their footprints are so large and they require such massive amounts of parking for only 8 home games a year. As lame as it is to go to a game out in the suburbs, I think that is often the best place for these b/c otherwise you have a massive deadzone in prime real estate areas for 350 days out of the year.
Interestingly, I think Heinz Field in Pittsburgh is in a good position to function without large amounts of parking around it. Many people who attend Steelers games actually park in downtown Pittsburgh, and from there they either take the T to the stadium, or they walk across the bridges and along the riverwalk. Many other people park at Station Square, and take a riverboat shuttle to and from the stadium. An increasing number of people dock their boats along the riverwalk to tailgate, especially early in the season when the weather is still pleasant. Speaking of tailgating, I believe there should still be a nice patch of asphalt for tailgaters next to the stadium, just not all the way around it. I'd leave the lot on the east side of the stadium near the Fort Duquesne Bridge as it is, and make it the designated tailgating zone. Otherwise, I'd focus on filling in property on the west side of the stadium near the Carnegie Science Center and the Rivers Casino.
Both Heinz Field and PNC Park have helped tidy up much of the riverfront in Pittsburgh, and PNC Park in particular seems to function as an extension of the revitalized Penn/Liberty corridor in downtown Pittsburgh. The Allegheny River has gradually become the "recreational" river in Pittsburgh. It started about 25 years ago with the redevelopment of Herr's Island, which included a rowing club, a neighborhood of townhouses, and a marina, but it really began to take off with the construction of Heinz Field, PNC Park, a new David L. Lawrence Convention Center, and a series of riverfront trails. After being used solely for utilitarian purposes for more than 100 years, recreational activity on the river became very popular, since it finally became accessible. And with the ongoing, large-scale redevelopment of the Strip District, life on the Allegheny River is about to get even better.
In fact, here's a list of neighborhoods, destinations and attractions along or near the Allegheny River, starting upriver at the Pennsylvania Turnpike, and ending at the confluence with the Monongahela and Ohio Rivers:
1. Allegheny Islands State Park
2. Oakmont Country Club
3. 12 Mile Island
4. Harmar Marina
5. Oakmont Marina and Yacht Club
6. O'Hara Landing
7. Algonquin/Duquesne Marina
8. Fox Chapel Yacht Club
9. Brilliant Marina
10. Aspinwall Marina
11. Pittsburgh Zoo and PPG Aquarium
12. Highland Park
13. Lawrenceville
14. Millvale Marina
15. Three Rivers Rowing Association
16. Washington's Landing Marina
17. 31st Street Studios (largest sound stage in the U.S. outside of New York and Los Angeles)
18. Washington's Landing (Herr's Island)
19. South Shore Marina
20. Strip District
21. Heinz History Center
22. Andy Warhol Museum
23. David L. Lawrence Convention Center
24. Allegheny Riverfront Park
25. Kayak Pittsburgh
26. PNC Park
27. North Shore Riverwalk
28. Point State Park
29. Stage AE
30. Heinz Field
31. Carnegie Science Center
32. Rivers Casino
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