Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Paul in what he is saying, is speaking for all men.
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance: that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
We all like him receive mercy because what we all did was done in unbelief. Unbelief is the reason we all sin. For the scriptures tell us whatsoever is not of Faith is sin. A man in unbelief to the reality of God in his life, is in darkness, he cannot see the way of God.
False information, some people God made to be vessels of mercy and fits them for destruction.
When people are cast into the lake of fire, God is not going to at that time separate their flesh / body from their soul and their spirit. Their whole person is going in headlong.
The soul is divided in death (Ecc 12:7) and the soul's divided parts/elements are then "separated one from another" as sheep (spirit) and goats (flesh) and judged accordingly (Mat 25:32-46).
Quote:
Otherwise they are not being cast into the lake of fire; but only the husk that used to contain them is cast therein.
The soul, according to the flesh, is cast into the "furnace of fire" and it's "death" into the "lake of fire" for destruction, that the spirit may be saved. Read 1Co 5:5.
Quote:
Why then even warn people about the lake of fire?
Because "it's better for you" (the soul) to have purged/cutoff the flesh in this world, rather than to experience it's judgment in the age to come.
You have not been able to deal with the reality of them, however, as I have presented them here. You have not even addressed Hebrews 9:27 from what I can see in all of our conversations.
I've responded to this numerous times. The soul is divided at death:
Ecc 12:7 And the dust returneth to the earth as it was, and the spirit returneth unto God who gave it.
The two divided elements of the soul [ie: flesh (dust) and spirit] are then "separated one from another" as "sheep" and "goats" and judged accordingly (Mat 25:32-46).
Quote:
Neither have you been able to refute the reality of Revelation 20:10, Matthew 13:41-42, and Matthew 13:49-50 as they are told together.
They don't need to be refuted, nor is it necessary to do so, nor would I want to. All of the parables/metaphors and allegories are speaking of judgments against the soul's flesh, not the spirit. The judgments against the flesh save the soul according to the spirit.
Quote:
A few more being Matthew 25:41 and Matthew 25:46.
The sheep (right hand) and goats (left hand) are metaphors for spirit and flesh, respectively. The "sheep" and "goats" represent the two "nations"/kingdoms of the soul "separated one from another" for judgment (Mat 25:32-33).
Quote:
Now, you may be able to deal with these verses individually, picking them apart; but you are unable to take all of the combined verses as a whole and refute their message as they speak together on the subject.
They're all speaking of judgments against the flesh to the saving of the spirit.
I don't see a need to keep ping-ponging this back and forth. You're not going to receive it until your ready.
Strictly speaking I don't quite agree here. Not all enter the Kingdom (REIGN) of Christ. Only those who overcome will reign and break down the many who are will be saved later.
I outlined it just above jjGuru - what do you think?
The difference was in how we were viewing and describing the Kingdom. You're describing the Kingdom dispensationally while I was viewing the Kingdom in summary.
The Kingdom of God is already in everyone. And Christ was anointed as such to open each person's eyes to see the Kingdom within and enter into it. It will happen for all.
Luk_4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
It gets into some of the history and scolars study. It may help you on your studies of the meaning of the words aion and aionios. Realize word meanings change over time, and its been a long time since the scriptures were written.
Again Paul was never on the broad road to destruction, He was always an vessel of mercy Rom 9:23-24...
Paul, as well as everyone else, are "vessels of mercy" according to the spirit, and "vessels of wrath fitted to destruction" according to the flesh. And this is the reason why the flesh wascrucified with Christ. And further why "death" the "last enemy" (ie: the flesh, the "body of this death", the "body of sin") is/will be destroyed:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
You're theology/beliefs, especially concerning the soul, hell, judgment, etc., are clearly being derived from Augustine and Calvin. And I think that's pretty clear.
As concerning the soul: Augustine (the mentor of Calvin in spirit, as well as the carnal minded teachings of scripture he held to) viewed the soul according to the teachings of Greek philosophers, Plato and Aristotle in particular. Thomas Aquinas also held the same views. Augustine's and Aquinas' views of the soul heavily influenced the RCC's doctrine/dogma/teachings, and it did so to such a degree that even the Protestant Reformation was unable to escape from it.
Here are some links that might be of interest to you. The links explore some of the theories and views of the soul that are now generally accepted dogmatically in Christian thinking today:
Paul, as well as everyone else, are "vessels of mercy" according to the spirit, and "vessels of wrath fitted to destruction" according to the flesh. And, the reason why the flesh wascrucified with Christ. And further, why "death" the "last enemy" (ie: the flesh, the "body of this death", the "body of sin") is/will be destroyed:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
You're theology/beliefs concerning the soul are clearly derived from Augustine and Calvin. And I think that's pretty clear.
Augustine (the mentor of Calvin in spirit, as well as the flesh) viewed the soul according to the teachings of Greek philosophers, Plato and Aristotle in particular. Thomas Aquinas held the same views. Augustine and Aquinas heavily influenced the RCC doctrines/dogma concerning the soul, and it did so to such a degree that even the Protestant Reformation was unable to escape from it.
Here are some links that might interest you. The links explore some of the theories and views of the soul that are now accepted dogmatically in Christian thinking today:
More Misinformation, some people are vessels of wrath, in contrast to being vessels of mercy Rom 9:20-23
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Both vessels (the vessels of mercy and the vessels of wrath/destruction) are derived/taken from the same lump of clay. That lump of clay is the soul.
It's tiring to continue this back and forth posting, and there is not much else I can contribute here, for now. Nothing new is really being discussed. Anyway, I've enjoyed the conversation with you.
Both vessels (the vessels of mercy and the vessels of wrath/destruction) are derived/taken from the same lump of clay. That lump of clay is the soul.
It's tiring to continue this back and forth posting, and there is not much else I can contribute here, for now. Nothing new is really being discussed. Anyway, I've enjoyed the conversation with you.
The vessels of mercy and the vessels of wrath are different individuals taken from the lump of fallen sinners. Some fallen sinners God made for mercy, and some for wrath and destruction.
The vessels of mercy and the vessels of wrath are different individuals taken from the lump of fallen sinners. Some fallen sinners God made for mercy, and some for wrath and destruction.
The vessels of wrath are broken by those who will judge the world.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Even Christ was broken!
Psalm 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psalm 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
They judge the earth, but for what purpose?
Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Isaiah 26:10 Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the Lord.
The wicked do not learn righteousness by God's grace (favour is grace), but they do learn it by God's judgment.
So those vessels of wrath, that are being broken, are being judged in the earth SO THEY LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. This is correction. Guess what, when you are corrected, you no longer do wrong (sin) - you are righteous! They are having the sin broken right out of them.
Romans 5:19 ...so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Its good news!
Do you understand BrightFame52?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
