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It's been very tough. The city of Atlanta proper has really been hammered -- we lost 105,00 jobs between 2000 and 2009. That's 22% of the work force, and of course we've lost even more in the last couple of years.
No it is not the same and it would be naive for you to think so.
For example, Italian Americans can point to Italy, with it's specific culture and history, and have sympatico with Italians. Invariably an Italian American probably has a relative whom is native and they can also go to Italy and see for themselves the town their family came from. I also find it odd that you think Italian Americans don't extol the benefits of having a economic relationship with Italy. Do not a lot Italian American business buy product directly from Italian distributors? Do they not infuse Italian culture and cuisine into every day American life?
African-Americans descended from slaves on the other hand do not, and cannot, have the same relationship with any African country (Africa does not have singular culture FYI) in the same manner as an Italian, Japanese, or Irish American for the simple fact that no African-American could ever know where their ancestors came from. Period.
When Africans were brought to the this country as slaves their culture, language, and religion was stripped from them completely. Any attempt to practice any aspect of it was often brutally suppressed. Furthermore, it wasn't as if Africans brought here as slaves from one town or village were all placed together on the same plantation. They were bought and sold for their physical attributes and thus almost immediately separated from everything and everyone they knew.
As the generations progressed, most cultural connections to any African culture had completely disappeared and in it's place an entire new culture (African-American culture) replaced it. The amount of time was so great that when slavery was finally abolished, no former slave could say "Welp, I'm headed back to Uganda". They had no idea of where in African where they were from and were concerned with creating a life for themselves in this country than anything else.
Over the years though there have been several attempts at adding an African edge to the African-American consciousness, but for the most part those attempts have failed as people are smart enough to understand that each part of Africa has a specific culture so it is silly to brag about being Nigerian or any other place in Africa.
But is it such a bad thing for African-Americans in the simplest sense to view Africa as "home"? It is a natural human inclination to identify with one's ancestors and learn about them and it is a luxury that African-Americans descended from slaves do not readily have in a specific way like you would. It is a lot like someone who was adopted as a child and has no idea about who their biological family is. Would it be an odd thing for them to seek out their biological family when they are an adult?
Also, why would it be a bad thing for their to be a situation where the descendants of slaves and modern day Africans united for mutual economic and cultural benefit? No matter what you feel (and really, it is irrelevant to anything happening what you feel) it would be an AMAZING event if by creating these deeper economic ties to Africa, African-Americans in total were able to reconnect with a continent they have been separated from (by force) for almost 500 years. It would be even more amazing that Atlanta would be the city in which that took place, but as a casual observer it would be amazing to happen in any other American city too.
To think though that this thread is part of some sort of agenda to prop up black people or is an affront to whites, asians or latinos is just being silly. It is simply a thread about deepening economic ties and hopefully bringing more business (aka money) to Atlanta. Have you forgotten that we are still reeling from the recession and need any help in growing our economy in Atlanta that we can get?
As the generations progressed, most cultural connections to any African culture had completely disappeared and in it's place an entire new culture (African-American culture) replaced it. The amount of time was so great that when slavery was finally abolished, no former slave could say "Welp, I'm headed back to Uganda". They had no idea of where in African where they were from and were concerned with creating a life for themselves in this country than anything else.
Very true.
And to a large degree I would imagine that's the case for many other Americans. I know who some (though certainly not all) of my ancestors were back to my great grandparents. They were born around the 1880s, but beyond that it's very fuzzy. I wouldn't know where to even begin tracking those people down.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,491 posts, read 15,085,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
Very true.
And to a large degree I would imagine that's the case for many other Americans. I know who some (though certainly not all) of my ancestors were back to my great grandparents. They were born around the 1880s, but beyond that it's very fuzzy. I wouldn't know where to even begin tracking those people down.
That's true. At some point, the descendants of all immigrants will eventually see themselves in an American centric light. That's just the way things go.
HOWEVER
You researching your family's history may not be as hard as it seems if you aren't descended from slaves. Your family had to come to this country at some point (unless you are native american then it has indeed been too long), and surprisingly Census records and even Colonial records were kept well enough that you can easily find where your family came from.
Genealogical research also has come a long way with the use of DNA testing. The current state of the art allows you to take a DNA test and pinpoint exactly where your ancestors came from. For most people not descended from slaves in America it is amazingly accurate and then can be paired archival data to rebuild your family history.
Statements like these that you made are dangerous, I think. Mr. dead/suicidal/drug addict/rockstar-personality has made far too many borderline racist comments like the current ones in the past and been called to the carpet on them just as often. So obviously, this fella has had many opportunities to "wise up", so to speak.
And you want to chalk this all up to some simple "thirst for knowledge"?
If us progressive types allow logic like this to go unfiltered, then all sorts of dangerous results can happen. Extreme eugenics, scientific racism like "The Bell Curve", Jim Crow, Nazi Germany, and many more heinous & depraved situations are the result when this "thirst for knowledge" such as what you claim that the dead rockstar personality posesses is allowed to go uncheck.
Nothing personal, but your comments seem to kinda scream "passive-sideline fence-sitting" moderate. And Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in his "Letter from a Birmingham Jail" has shown us progessives why it's necessary to cast a skeptical eye on the moderate.
I'm not trying to insult you or anything, but I am just simply giving an opposite opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plessthanpointohfive
OK, hold on everybody.
BBC is not an idiot or an imbecile, etc. Actually, it's quite clear he/she is educated and has a thirst for knowledge and those things should be respected.
So, let's not go overboard bashing his/her efforts to assert his/her (OK, for brevity, just "its") force on the world. We all do that. We ALL go through though the proving ground.
BBS doesn't have NOTHING to offer the conversation. BBV has actually pointed out some cogent academic facts and the possible ramifications. That's not a bad thing. In fact, that's exactly the sort of thing we encourage in my agency because it stimulates conversation and viewpoints.
All BBC is guilty of is (1) arrogance of the likes I've NEVER seen, and (2) extreme naivety.
Those things aren't career killers, per se.
Lookit, BBC, I can't offer too many details because...I work for the fed. A LOT of what I do isn't cleared for public consumption on a given day. I am actually prohibited, as is any federal employee, of going out and spouting out USG facts without prior approval. If you think that sounds crazy...just talk to officers in the military and they'll tell you the same thing.
At the end of the day, I can only publicly represent the USG when the USG tell me I can.
And if you can't live with that...not my problem.
Last edited by AcidSnake; 06-17-2011 at 02:51 PM..
@waronxmas who wrote: "it would be an AMAZING event if by creating these deeper economic ties to Africa, African-Americans in total were able to reconnect with a continent they have been separated from (by force) for almost 500 years."
Last time I checked there have been airplanes and ships leaving for Africa on a daily basis for the past seventy or more years.......how have blacks been "separated by force" from Africa for almost 500 years? Delta is ready when you are.....LMAO....you ready to take up a mud hut in sub-Saharan Africa or you gonna hang here?
@waronxmas who wrote: "it would be an AMAZING event if by creating these deeper economic ties to Africa, African-Americans in total were able to reconnect with a continent they have been separated from (by force) for almost 500 years."
Last time I checked there have been airplanes and ships leaving for Africa on a daily basis for the past seventy or more years.......how have blacks been "separated by force" from Africa for almost 500 years? Delta is ready when you are.....LMAO....you ready to take up a mud hut in sub-Saharan Africa or you gonna hang here?
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,491 posts, read 15,085,182 times
Reputation: 7372
Quote:
Originally Posted by northwinds
Last time I checked there have been airplanes and ships leaving for Africa on a daily basis for the past seventy or more years.......how have blacks been "separated by force" from Africa for almost 500 years? Delta is ready when you are.....LMAO....you ready to take up a mud hut in sub-Saharan Africa or you gonna hang here?
So, bigotry and racism aside, there is a reason why:
Where exactly would African-Americans go? Point to me on a map in which country your average African-American can say "Hey, I'm headed to {insert country there}. See ya suckers!" Oh, you can't can you?
The United States is the only home African-Americans know as a people and this will not change. Don't sit up late at night waiting for some great awakening where African-Americans will move in mass "back to Africa" (and really, how is that going to work? Do you think people will just get on a plane and randomly settle in whatever country they land in?) because it will never, ever, happen. America is just as much African-American's as it is any other peoples. Their blood, sweat and tears are sown into this land and to even consider that African-Americans would want to give it up on any grand scale is just idiotic.
As for the "almost 500 year" comment, perhaps you could have been smart enough to consider that African-American culture began when the first slave ships arrived in the 16th century. From that point on, Africans who were brought here in chains and born into bondage had no connection to Africa. Zip. Zero. Nada. The chance to build up any city in America as a gateway for African business and culture will undoubtedly create a situation where Africans and African-Americans can reconnect on a real level. One which that has not existed for almost 500 years.
So, I suppose I could spew all sorts of vile vitriol upon you for your comments, but I will not.
Speaking of needing help, I just read this sobering statistic in the Atlanta Business Chronicle:
We lose 11,000 jobs while Dallas adds 83,000??
It's pretty bad when you're getting blown away by Detroit.
For what it's worth, the year-over-year employment statistics don't show the picture very well. Atlanta did in fact lose that many jobs between April 2010 and 2011. Even more startling, we lost 30,000 jobs between May 2010 and 2011!
But look closer: employment was increasing first half of 2010. Then it collapsed. Between May 2010 and Jan 2011, Atlanta lost a staggering 70,000 jobs! However, since the start of the year, we have gained 40,000 jobs back. If we simply stagnante for the rest of the year, and don't gain a job, by January 2012 we'll be 40,000 jobs in the positive and everybody will be saying "wow, Atlanta gained a lot of jobs last year!" when in reality it had been really stagnant and weak.
So expect these year over year job changes to look better and better over the coming months--for no better reason than the fact that our economy really sucked in the second half of 2010. And don't mistake it for a sign things are actually going well.
For signs things are going well, always look at month-over-month job changes. Last month, Georgia added 3,400 jobs, which is nothing to write home about but better than the nation as a whole (which added about 50,000), but unfortunately basically all of those jobs were outside of Atlanta. But jobs in the surrounding cities help us too.
One vital thing to look at is private sector vs public sector. Of the 30,000 jobs lost in Atlanta since May 2011, 20,000 of them were government jobs. The fact that the private sector is less harmed than the public sector is a good thing: government isn't what brings home the bacon. The rest of the state did a lot better, in fact: the rest of the state (excluding Atlanta) gained 20,000 private sector jobs, although the government shrank by 15,000 jobs.
I'd really urge everyone to look at the actual employment statistics rather than reading the articles. There's almost always more to the story.
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