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Lookit, BBC, I can't offer too many details because...I work for the fed. A LOT of what I do isn't cleared for public consumption on a given day. I am actually prohibited, as is any federal employee, of going out and spouting out USG facts without prior approval. If you think that sounds crazy...just talk to officers in the military and they'll tell you the same thing.
At the end of the day, I can only publicly represent the USG when the USG tell me I can.
And if you can't live with that...not my problem.
No, I can live with that. I wish you had said this earlier, though.
See that call a straw man because you knew what I meant and because you can't argue with what I said you have to straw man my argument fail. So let me re post.
thought-provoking analysis? Oh no! I just re post what your saying in fact tell me where I'm wrong? So again.
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Quick review or fast summary!
1. You have race war mindset, blacks are generally evil and also you have a messiah complex.
None of the above is true. It sounds like you harbor the mentality that an attack on one is an attack on all.
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2. Your arguing mainly with white posters, I guess they too are using the economic argument to hide a agenda to keep Atlanta black.
My decision over who I choose to debate is not based on the supposed skin color of a poster. I refuted the claim of Africa's economic superiority (made by black posters and white posters alike), and when it was purposely ignored by certain posters, I called out the reasoning for why it was ignored.
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3. Everyone cares about the city remaining black it just so important and serious.
Humans fear change. That is natural. Atlanta has changed a lot, and it will continue to change. Many black people are not comfortable with those changes. Shirley Franklin and Chris Rock have both publicly stated their displeasure with the changes Atlanta is undergoing.
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4. The idea or the agenda to fight and keep the city majority black American! is to reach out to black people with different cultures, and not domestic black Americans with black American culture. Yeah that it!
It's not really about culture. It's more about the symbolic meaning Africa embodies as the "mother country" for black Americans, so to speak. It would be like an Italian-American extolling the supposedly huge benefits of New Jersey strengthening its ties with the economically-weak Italy, even though they know that resources would be better spent focusing on countries with stronger economies, in order to preserve the image of New Jersey as Italian. The fact that Italians may not get along with Italian-Americans from New Jersey, or vice versa, doesn't really matter. Italy is used more as an entity and a symbol in order to re-enforce an existing stereotype of New Jersey as an Italian state.
No, they absolutely do. I don't really think Latin America holds much promise outside of Brazil and Mexico. The region is more on a level of Africa than Asia.
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Streghtening ties with particular African countries is a smart move IMO. As you said, the natural resources, oil, and other economic considerations is a plus.
I agree with strengthening ties with Asian countries as well tho
I agree. Asia should take a higher priority though.
I just think it's dumb that BringBackCobain would we should just completely ignore an entire continent with so many resources. I don't care how racist or doubtful you are, there are reasons other nation wan to "chop it up" and are involved with it.
I'm also not sure BringBackCobain would think it is a zero sum game. Why do we only need to be involved economically with "X" continent and not the others?
When did I say that we should ignore Africa? I never said that. Stop putting words in my mouth and go back and read. I simply said that the notion that Africa should take a higher priority than Asia is not based in economic reality.
When did I say that we should ignore Africa? I never said that. Stop putting words in my mouth and go back and read. I simply said that the notion that Africa should take a higher priority than Asia is not based in economic reality.
Who said Africa was more important economically then Asia? Who implied that?
It's not really about culture. It's more about the symbolic meaning Africa embodies as the "mother country" for black Americans, so to speak. It would be like an Italian-American extolling the supposedly huge benefits of New Jersey strengthening its ties with the economically-weak Italy, even though they know that resources would be better spent focusing on countries with stronger economies, in order to preserve the image of New Jersey as Italian. The fact that Italians may not get along with Italian-Americans from New Jersey, or vice versa, doesn't really matter. Italy is used more as an entity and a symbol in order to re-enforce an existing stereotype of New Jersey as an Italian state.
I hear what you're saying, BBC, but I honestly don't see that much of a connection between the African American population in Atlanta (or elsewhere) and U.S. relationships with the African continent in today's world. Aren't most of the U.S. ambassadors, NGOs, corporations, religious organizations, etc., that are active in Africa primarily white folks?
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,990,056 times
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Originally Posted by BringBackCobain
It's not really about culture. It's more about the symbolic meaning Africa embodies as the "mother country" for black Americans, so to speak. It would be like an Italian-American extolling the supposedly huge benefits of New Jersey strengthening its ties with the economically-weak Italy, even though they know that resources would be better spent focusing on countries with stronger economies, in order to preserve the image of New Jersey as Italian. The fact that Italians may not get along with Italian-Americans from New Jersey, or vice versa, doesn't really matter. Italy is used more as an entity and a symbol in order to re-enforce an existing stereotype of New Jersey as an Italian state.
No it is not the same and it would be naive for you to think so.
For example, Italian Americans can point to Italy, with it's specific culture and history, and have sympatico with Italians. Invariably an Italian American probably has a relative whom is native and they can also go to Italy and see for themselves the town their family came from. I also find it odd that you think Italian Americans don't extol the benefits of having a economic relationship with Italy. Do not a lot Italian American business buy product directly from Italian distributors? Do they not infuse Italian culture and cuisine into every day American life?
African-Americans descended from slaves on the other hand do not, and cannot, have the same relationship with any African country (Africa does not have singular culture FYI) in the same manner as an Italian, Japanese, or Irish American for the simple fact that no African-American could ever know where their ancestors came from. Period.
When Africans were brought to the this country as slaves their culture, language, and religion was stripped from them completely. Any attempt to practice any aspect of it was often brutally suppressed. Furthermore, it wasn't as if Africans brought here as slaves from one town or village were all placed together on the same plantation. They were bought and sold for their physical attributes and thus almost immediately separated from everything and everyone they knew.
As the generations progressed, most cultural connections to any African culture had completely disappeared and in it's place an entire new culture (African-American culture) replaced it. The amount of time was so great that when slavery was finally abolished, no former slave could say "Welp, I'm headed back to Uganda". They had no idea of where in African where they were from and were concerned with creating a life for themselves in this country than anything else.
Over the years though there have been several attempts at adding an African edge to the African-American consciousness, but for the most part those attempts have failed as people are smart enough to understand that each part of Africa has a specific culture so it is silly to brag about being Nigerian or any other place in Africa.
But is it such a bad thing for African-Americans in the simplest sense to view Africa as "home"? It is a natural human inclination to identify with one's ancestors and learn about them and it is a luxury that African-Americans descended from slaves do not readily have in a specific way like you would. It is a lot like someone who was adopted as a child and has no idea about who their biological family is. Would it be an odd thing for them to seek out their biological family when they are an adult?
Also, why would it be a bad thing for their to be a situation where the descendants of slaves and modern day Africans united for mutual economic and cultural benefit? No matter what you feel (and really, it is irrelevant to anything happening what you feel) it would be an AMAZING event if by creating these deeper economic ties to Africa, African-Americans in total were able to reconnect with a continent they have been separated from (by force) for almost 500 years. It would be even more amazing that Atlanta would be the city in which that took place, but as a casual observer it would be amazing to happen in any other American city too.
To think though that this thread is part of some sort of agenda to prop up black people or is an affront to whites, asians or latinos is just being silly. It is simply a thread about deepening economic ties and hopefully bringing more business (aka money) to Atlanta. Have you forgotten that we are still reeling from the recession and need any help in growing our economy in Atlanta that we can get?
Last edited by waronxmas; 06-17-2011 at 12:15 PM..
To think though that this thread is part of some sort of agenda to prop up black people or is an affront to whites, asians or latinos is just being silly. It is simply a thread about deepening economic ties and hopefully bringing more business (aka money) to Atlanta. Have you forgotten that we are still reeling from the recession and need any help in growing our economy in Atlanta that we can get?
Well said, waronxmas.
Speaking of needing help, I just read this sobering statistic in the Atlanta Business Chronicle:
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No other major U.S. city has lost more jobs between April 2010 and April 2011 than Atlanta.
In fact, of the 12 largest metro areas, Atlanta and San Francisco were the only two that lost jobs in that period, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
While Atlanta lost 9,000 jobs over that span, and San Francisco lost 4,800, Dallas has added 83,100 jobs; Houston, 51,100; Chicago, 37,100; Los Angeles, 36,200; Washington, 25,700; New York, 22,400; Boston, 20,900; Miami, 19,100; and Philadelphia, 3,300.
Even Detroit, whose dwindling population has made headlines, created 11,700 jobs.
We lose 11,000 jobs while Dallas adds 83,000??
It's pretty bad when you're getting blown away by Detroit.
No it is not the same and it would be naive for you to think so.
For example, Italian Americans can point to Italy, with it's specific culture and history, and have sympatico with Italians. Invariably an Italian American probably has a relative whom is native and they can also go to Italy and see for themselves the town their family came from. I also find it odd that you think Italian Americans extol the benefits of having a economic relationship with Italy. Do not a lot Italian American business buy product directly from Italian distributors? Do they not infuse Italian culture and cuisine into every day American life?
African-Americans descended from slaves on the other hand do not, and cannot, have the same relationship any African country (Africa does not have singular culture FYI) in the same manner as an Italian, Japanese, or Irish American for the simple fact that no African-American could ever know where their ancestors come from. Period.
When Africans were brought to the this country as slaves their culture, language, and religion was stripped from them completely. Any attempt to practice any aspect of it was often brutally suppressed. Furthermore, it wasn't as if Africans brought here as slaves from one town or village were all placed together on the same plantation. They were bought and sold for their physical attributes and thus almost immediately separated from everything and everyone they knew.
As the generations progressed, most cultural connections to any African culture had completely disappeared and in it's place an entire new culture (African-American culture) replaced it. The amount of time was so great that when slavery was finally abolished, no former slave could say "Welp, I'm headed back to Uganda". They had no idea of where in African where they were from and were concerned with creating a life for themselves in this country than anything else.
Over the years though there have been several attempts at adding an African edge to the African-American consciousness, but for the most part those attempts have failed as people are smart enough to understand that each part of Africa has a specific culture so it is silly to brag about being Nigerian or any other place in Africa.
But is it such a bad thing for African-Americans in the simplest sense to view Africa as "home"? It is a natural human inclination to identify with one's ancestors and learn about them and it is a luxury that African-Americans descended from slaves do not readily have in a specific way like you would. It is a lot like someone who was adopted as a child and has no idea about who their biological family is. Would it be an odd thing for them to seek out their biological family when they are an adult?
Also, why would it be a bad thing for their to be a situation where the descendants of slaves and modern day Africans united for mutual economic and cultural benefit? No matter what you feel (and really, it is irrelevant to anything happening what you feel) it would be an AMAZING event if by creating these deeper economic ties to Africa, African-Americans in total were able to reconnect with a continent they have been separated from (by force) for almost 500 years. It would be even more amazing that Atlanta would be the city in which that took place, but as a casual observer it would be amazing to happen in any other American city too.
To think though that this thread is part of some sort of agenda to prop up black people or is an affront to whites, asians or latinos is just being silly. It is simply a thread about deepening economic ties and hopefully bringing more business (aka money) to Atlanta. Have you forgotten that we are still reeling from the recession and need any help in growing our economy in Atlanta that we can get?
This was by far the best post on this thread. Thank you sir/mrs. Thank you. To add to that, in reality, the "African" from African American needs to be dropped entirely. "African" American's were made in America. There is nothing African about them, except the black skin that most Africans have. That's like if I saw a German, and classified all white people as German. Oh! He's white? So he's a German American.
If you want to talk about the american melting pot, mixing of cultures and what not, African American culture exemplifies it to the fullest. (Not this ghetto rap culture that has taken hold as AA culture these past couple of decades... that's like saying hillbillies are representative of white culture and no one likes hillbillies lol)
The achievements and the failures of AA is that of a true American story. And on top of everything else, ALL human beings originate from Africa. So technically, that's everybody's home. Well... unless your not human and the way some people act about this ENTIRE "race" situation, its hard to classify them as such.
Speaking of needing help, I just read this sobering statistic in the Atlanta Business Chronicle:
We lose 11,000 jobs while Dallas adds 83,000??
It's pretty bad when you're getting blown away by Detroit.
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