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Attack the messenger. That’s literally all you do. Either he is a nut or he is in it for the money. The government can’t possibly be wrong, it’s all these hundreds of witnesses and researchers that are wrong.
You have brought very little to this discussion, despite posting multiple times, because you don’t know anything. You are a novice on this topic.
The RFK assassination deserves its own thread because, par for the course, there are serious problems with the official account. There are also problems with the MLK assassination. That deserves its own thread, too.
But getting back to the JFK assassination, if RFK Jr says he has problems with it, that is a valid input. He has talked to people that we have not.
Lastly, I don’t put a lot of stock in family members who trash their own relatives. This is another tired tactic that the government uses. Carrot or stick, doesn’t matter, just get them to talk bad about a relative.
On the contrary, I have tried to discuss many assassination related topics here. I've described Oswald's alias "A Hidell" and how he used it to order the rifle found on the Sixth Floor. I've described his relationship with Ruth Paine. I've mentioned how Oswald's job at the TSBD was found for him by calling around because he needed employment. I've described how the route of the motorcade was published in the Dallas Morning News a short time before the assassination and how Oswald was an avid reader of newspapers and other things. I've talked about the numerous witnesses to the shooting of Officer Tibbets and Oswald being found with a revolver in a nearby theater after people saw him run in there. I've talked about Jack Ruby and how he had two dogs in his truck with him when he saw something happening over at the jail. I've talked about how he carried a revolver around with him all the time because of security issues in his night club business.
Unlike you, I've actually tried cases in criminal court. I've learned first hand how difficult it is for a prosecutor to have evidence that is absolutely solid in many cases. Its why the system allows convictions based on "reasonable doubt" than requiring that there be no doubt at all as to a person's guilt.
We speak on other forums and its my observation that you tend to think in terms of conspiracies not only about this topic, but probably about most current event topics. I think that is something that others who read your posts here ought to be aware of.
I do think being a recovering heroin addict or a recovering alcoholic are facts that people need to understand when they evaluate the credibility of someone's statements. These disorders tend to alter thought processes. I will say though that I always found RFK Jr.'s presidential candidacy laughable because he has no experience in terms of holding an elected or appointed public office. I am as qualified as he is to be President except my last name is not Kennedy.
Anyway, you have your opinions I have mine. Plenty of people have repped me for my post on the JFK Assassination, so I disagree I have little to say here.
Not sure why anyone would be so invested in an event that happened >60 years ago. JFK is still dead, as are all the others. 178 pages of sorta/if/maybe/coulda will not change one thing.
This thread needs to be closed. A mercy killing, as it were...
Either you believe a very credible patriot like Brugioni, or you believe a corrupt government led by ruthless, evil people like LBJ, Allen Dulles, and. J. Edgar Hoover.
That’s really what it all boils down to. You are free to keep believing in your government, no matter how many times throughout history they have been proven to be corrupt and evil.
And there you have it folks. Your "proof" that the Zapruder film was altered by the CIA is because you mistrust some people in the gubbermint. Complete and Total Fail. This sums up your entire approach to all evidence. You would be laughed out of a courtroom, possibly in a strait jacket.
This thread belongs in a Religion or Paranormal forum because its entire foundation is unproven beliefs with no basis in reality.
On the contrary, I have tried to discuss many assassination related topics here. I've described Oswald's alias "A Hidell" and how he used it to order the rifle found on the Sixth Floor. I've described his relationship with Ruth Paine. I've mentioned how Oswald's job at the TSBD was found for him by calling around because he needed employment. I've described how the route of the motorcade was published in the Dallas Morning News a short time before the assassination and how Oswald was an avid reader of newspapers and other things. I've talked about the numerous witnesses to the shooting of Officer Tibbets and Oswald being found with a revolver in a nearby theater after people saw him run in there. I've talked about Jack Ruby and how he had two dogs in his truck with him when he saw something happening over at the jail. I've talked about how he carried a revolver around with him all the time because of security issues in his night club business.
Unlike you, I've actually tried cases in criminal court. I've learned first hand how difficult it is for a prosecutor to have evidence that is absolutely solid in many cases. Its why the system allows convictions based on "reasonable doubt" than requiring that there be no doubt at all as to a person's guilt.
We speak on other forums and its my observation that you tend to think in terms of conspiracies not only about this topic, but probably about most current event topics. I think that is something that others who read your posts here ought to be aware of.
I do think being a recovering heroin addict or a recovering alcoholic are facts that people need to understand when they evaluate the credibility of someone's statements. These disorders tend to alter thought processes. I will say though that I always found RFK Jr.'s presidential candidacy laughable because he has no experience in terms of holding an elected or appointed public office. I am as qualified as he is to be President except my last name is not Kennedy.
Anyway, you have your opinions I have mine. Plenty of people have repped me for my post on the JFK Assassination, so I disagree I have little to say here.
Finally, some substance.
1) A Hidell was an (alleged) alias of Oswald’s, that much we can agree on. But I have serious questions. Why did Harry Holmes (FBI Informant T2) and Reuben Efron (CIA) know about the A Hidell alias months prior to the assassination, and why did both agencies that were monitoring Oswald’s mail allow a Soviet defector, a known agitator and loose cannon, to receive a rifle and handgun using a fake name? Lastly, the reason I say “alleged” A Hidell alias is because an unknown person “found” Oswald’s wallet at the Tippit scene, and this wallet with the A Hidell alias was given to Captain Westbrook. My last question here is why did Captain Westbrook abruptly quit the DPD and in early 1964 was working for the CIA in Saigon, South Vietnam?
2) Because I have serious problems with the A Hidell alias being real, and because I have serious problems with the paperwork of the rifle being ordered and mailed from Chicago, I’m not 100% convinced any of this is real.
3) There is no evidence that Oswald was on the 6th floor at 12:30, none at all. There is no evidence, none at all, that Oswald was seen going up the stairs at 11:55 or later. Since you implied you are some sort of trial lawyer, how can you paint Brennan as credible when he didn’t pick Oswald out of a lineup and later changed his mind? How can you paint a felony drug user, Givens, as credible when he changed his story from seeing nobody go up the stairs to it was definitely Lee? I’ll leave you with DPD Chief Jesse Curry’s statement from 1969: “No one has ever been able to put him (Oswald) in the Texas School Book Depository with a rifle in his hand."
4) The Paine’s are CIA affiliated, and that fact is indisputable. How odd that they befriended the family, gave them a place to stay, and even found Lee a job overlooking the motorcade?
5) I have done a bunch of research on this one aspect, and I agree, Oswald was present at the Tippit murder. Notice how I stated present. He may have been the shooter and he may not have been. I’m leaning towards that he did pull the trigger, but I’m not 100% certain. But Tippit’s actions are highly suspect, and the timeline for Oswald to get to Tippit if he walked from his boarding house do not work for me. I have a theory that Tippit picked up Oswald, they argued. Tippit parked at the location in Oak Cliff, and then shots were fired, likely by Oswald, who then fled the scene and was seen at Top 10 records and apprehended at the theater. But what were they arguing about? I suspect it had to do with the JFK assassination plot.
6) I actually do remember the Jack Ruby dog discussion. Wouldn’t it make sense to take your dogs with you? Because you aren’t going to see them for a long time, and that way they aren’t left at home unattended. Someone would see them in the vehicle and get them food and water. But you oddly never make any comments about Dr. West showing up in Ruby’s cell. Let me guess, you are like Bill Maher and you have no idea what MK Ultra is?
Lastly, about conspiracies and my other posts. I wouldn’t say I’m a conspiracy theorist at all. I believe we landed on the moon, I believe the earth is round, I believe 9/11 was a terrorist attack and not an inside job, I believe MH370 was probably a disgruntled pilot, but still not 100% sure.
Not sure what other conspiracies you think I believe in? I consider myself a common sense type of person, and when something doesn’t make sense, I question it.
Attack the messenger. That’s literally all you do. Either he is a nut or he is in it for the money. The government can’t possibly be wrong, it’s all these hundreds of witnesses and researchers that are wrong.
You have brought very little to this discussion, despite posting multiple times, because you don’t know anything. You are a novice on this topic.
The RFK assassination deserves its own thread because, par for the course, there are serious problems with the official account. There are also problems with the MLK assassination. That deserves its own thread, too.
But getting back to the JFK assassination, if RFK Jr says he has problems with it, that is a valid input. He has talked to people that we have not.
Lastly, I don’t put a lot of stock in family members who trash their own relatives. This is another tired tactic that the government uses. Carrot or stick, doesn’t matter, just get them to talk bad about a relative.
RFK Jr. says that he has 115 relatives. The four who are against his candidacy are all employed, directly or indirectly, by the Democratic Party.
I’m a Republican who intends to vote that way, but I have read and listened to RFKs positions on things, and if he were to be elected, I’d sleep just fine.
He is an anti vaxxer in some cases, but he is for free choice for individuals.
Not sure why anyone would be so invested in an event that happened >60 years ago. JFK is still dead, as are all the others. 178 pages of sorta/if/maybe/coulda will not change one thing.
This thread needs to be closed. A mercy killing, as it were...
CIA officer Felix Rodriguez was on Tucker Carlson podcast recently.
He seems to me to be very credible and he had a fascinating career. He was with Che Guevara in Bolivia when the Bolivians executed him. He also mentioned that Fidel did not help Che because Fidel wanted him out of the picture due to Che’s pro-Chinese stance, which caused problems with the Soviets.
Felix was also in Cuba during the Bay of Pigs, helping the resistance. Oddly, his group was not notified of the actual Bay of Pigs invasion. All of the anti-Castro forces blamed JFK and considered him a traitor due to his unwillingness to save the invasion. The more you dig into the Bay of Pigs fiasco, the more incompetent it becomes. I’m not convinced JFK is the real culprit, I think Dulles orchestrated the failure. JFK may have been the “patsy” as Dulles set him up for not giving him carte Blanche to do what he wanted to do in Cuba.
But the main thing Felix stated about the JFK assassination was this:
1) The CIA did not assassinate JFK
2) There was definitely more than one shooter, and the other shooter he believes to be General Fabian Escalante, who was a Captain in 1963. Captain Escalante was in Dallas on 22 Nov 1963.
3) Esclante is pro-Castro, and the theory is that Fidel green lit this whole thing after Oswald showed up at the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City on 27 September 63.
My thoughts:
Based on the extensive reading I’ve done, it just doesn’t seem the most plausible to me that Castro took out JFK.
I still can’t compartmentalize all the CIA dirty fingerprints on this whole thing, starting with Dulles in 1961 becoming irate at JFK, and ending with Dulles in 1964 on the Warren Commission influencing a lone wolf conclusion.
So while I find this guy credible, and while I find his story somewhat plausible, I can’t help but think there are behind the scenes details that even he doesn’t know about. But if Escalante really did kill JFK, I believe he was allowed to be in Dallas by the rogue elements of the CIA, who still had these fantasies about invading Cuba and taking Castro out. I think their initial working plan was to pin the assassination on Castro, but after (presumably) Escalante took out JFK, they were either stopped or they lost their resolve to continue on with taking out Castro.
In 1964, the US government realized they had a complete mess on their hands, and they didn’t have any strong courses of action to rectify this whole thing. So they chose what they thought was the best option, which was pin it on a lone wolf.
But the problems with the cover up started to get out of hand because too many people were starting to realize that Oswald was being tracked very carefully by the FBI, CIA, the Cubans, and the Soviets. It’s just a bridge too far that Oswald somehow sneakily ordered weapons through the mail with an alias, despite everyone tracking his every movement, to include his mail. It’s just a bridge too far that the CIA affiliated Paine’s influenced him to take a job at a building overlooking the parade route, on 15 October 1963, which was 3 weeks after he was photographed by the CIA walking into the Cuban Embassy on 27 September.
So while I have a lot of admiration for Mr. Felix Rodriguez, I’m still not convinced about his declaration that the CIA wasn’t involved.
But if someone was to believe that Oswald did it, they’d have to also believe in the incredible amount of incompetence where multiple agencies followed a guy and he slipped through. Oswald, is somewhat smart, but he isn’t a super sleuth. Even if the Cubans and/or Soviets helped him, it’s just not plausible that the CIA would be caught flat footed. Which leads back to the same theory, that elements within the CIA wanted JFK taken out.
It is laughable that Castro would assassinate JFK. If it was obvious he did, that would mean the end of the Cuban regime. Castro was not that stupid. Also JFK was wanting more normal relations with Cuba to de-escalate seeing conflict as not the way forward.
CIA officer Felix Rodriguez was on Tucker Carlson podcast recently.
He seems to me to be very credible and he had a fascinating career. He was with Che Guevara in Bolivia when the Bolivians executed him. He also mentioned that Fidel did not help Che because Fidel wanted him out of the picture due to Che’s pro-Chinese stance, which caused problems with the Soviets.
Felix was also in Cuba during the Bay of Pigs, helping the resistance. Oddly, his group was not notified of the actual Bay of Pigs invasion. All of the anti-Castro forces blamed JFK and considered him a traitor due to his unwillingness to save the invasion. The more you dig into the Bay of Pigs fiasco, the more incompetent it becomes. I’m not convinced JFK is the real culprit, I think Dulles orchestrated the failure. JFK may have been the “patsy” as Dulles set him up for not giving him carte Blanche to do what he wanted to do in Cuba.
But the main thing Felix stated about the JFK assassination was this:
1) The CIA did not assassinate JFK
2) There was definitely more than one shooter, and the other shooter he believes to be General Fabian Escalante, who was a Captain in 1963. Captain Escalante was in Dallas on 22 Nov 1963.
3) Esclante is pro-Castro, and the theory is that Fidel green lit this whole thing after Oswald showed up at the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City on 27 September 63.
My thoughts:
Based on the extensive reading I’ve done, it just doesn’t seem the most plausible to me that Castro took out JFK.
I still can’t compartmentalize all the CIA dirty fingerprints on this whole thing, starting with Dulles in 1961 becoming irate at JFK, and ending with Dulles in 1964 on the Warren Commission influencing a lone wolf conclusion.
So while I find this guy credible, and while I find his story somewhat plausible, I can’t help but think there are behind the scenes details that even he doesn’t know about. But if Escalante really did kill JFK, I believe he was allowed to be in Dallas by the rogue elements of the CIA, who still had these fantasies about invading Cuba and taking Castro out. I think their initial working plan was to pin the assassination on Castro, but after (presumably) Escalante took out JFK, they were either stopped or they lost their resolve to continue on with taking out Castro.
In 1964, the US government realized they had a complete mess on their hands, and they didn’t have any strong courses of action to rectify this whole thing. So they chose what they thought was the best option, which was pin it on a lone wolf.
But the problems with the cover up started to get out of hand because too many people were starting to realize that Oswald was being tracked very carefully by the FBI, CIA, the Cubans, and the Soviets. It’s just a bridge too far that Oswald somehow sneakily ordered weapons through the mail with an alias, despite everyone tracking his every movement, to include his mail. It’s just a bridge too far that the CIA affiliated Paine’s influenced him to take a job at a building overlooking the parade route, on 15 October 1963, which was 3 weeks after he was photographed by the CIA walking into the Cuban Embassy on 27 September.
So while I have a lot of admiration for Mr. Felix Rodriguez, I’m still not convinced about his declaration that the CIA wasn’t involved.
But if someone was to believe that Oswald did it, they’d have to also believe in the incredible amount of incompetence where multiple agencies followed a guy and he slipped through. Oswald, is somewhat smart, but he isn’t a super sleuth. Even if the Cubans and/or Soviets helped him, it’s just not plausible that the CIA would be caught flat footed. Which leads back to the same theory, that elements within the CIA wanted JFK taken out.
See picture of Operation 40 CIA led assassination members Jan 21, 1963.
It is about plausible deniability. Create an incident, manage the narrative, and eliminate possible leaks and disregard and bury evidence (uncooperative witnesses too!). Or when the investigation is ongoing determine that inconvenient evidence is "Not deemed relevant".
This all goes back to Office of Strategic Services (precursor to CIA) using Mafia to help in WW2 via Mayer Lansky. The CIA - Mafia cross pollination with other "Intel" agencies have long relationship. Much of it is for Narco trafficking. Off budget revenues to be used as they wish.
The Lamar Waldron and Thomas Hartman JFK books (Ultmate Sacrifice) have chapters that detail a lot of the Cuban Bay of Pigs organization, orchestration and fallout.
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