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Do you have any links or other information regarding item 7? I did a quick search but didn't find anything credible about the CIA "frying Ruby's brain".
How can you not find any info?
Dr. Louis Jolyon West
(1924-1999) was a well-known Los Angles psychiatrist who served as the chair of UCLA's Department of Psychiatry and as director of the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute from 1969 to 1989. He was an expert on cults, coercive persuasion ("brainwashing"), alcoholism, drug abuse, violence, and terrorism.
Dr. West was once Major West, USAF. He got involved with Korean War POWs. If you remember the Manchurian Candidate, this is the type of thing he studied.
Because of his groundbreaking research on brainwashing, and his military background, the CIA became very interested in him and brought him into Project MK Ultra. I’m sure nobody reading this needs an explanation of what Project MK Ultra was.
Anyway, Dr. West was pulled away from MK Ultra to “treat” Jack Ruby in Dallas. After this treatment, Dr. West’s recommendation to the CIA was that Ruby be administered Sodium Pentathol and be hypnotized.
What was the CIA’s response to Dr. West? Those documents were destroyed, because of course they were.
Just dumb luck, right?
Jack Ruby’s mental state rapidly deteriorated after Dr. West’s visits. Jack Ruby’s friends and family who knew him were shocked at how incoherent he was at the end. Of course, that was just his body weakening due to cancer, right? Of course it was. How ridiculous do you have to be to think that an MK Ultra psychiatrist, who had no reason to even see Jack Ruby, ended up alone with him in a cell and then after the visits, became incoherent. Thats all just a coincidence!
I’m not going to go all the way into it, but Jack Ruby dropped hints that there might be something more going on. Many people believe this spooked the CIA, and that’s why they brought in Dr. West.
But I do have a few questions:
1) Who ordered and authorized Dr. West to go treat Jack Ruby?
2) Wouldn’t it have made sense to have a psychologist in Dallas who was actually treating people see Ruby?
3). Does it even make sense that a psychiatrist out of state, who was working on experimental brainwashing techniques, and not treating patients, be the guy to treat Ruby?
Anyway, there are dozens upon dozens of articles and videos about Dr. West and Jack Ruby.
If Oswald killed JFK alone, and if Ruby killed Oswald alone, why is MK Ultra involved in all of this?
Shut up conspiracist! Dr. West’s involvement is inconsequential.
(1924-1999) was a well-known Los Angles psychiatrist who served as the chair of UCLA's Department of Psychiatry and as director of the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute from 1969 to 1989. He was an expert on cults, coercive persuasion ("brainwashing"), alcoholism, drug abuse, violence, and terrorism.
Dr. West was once Major West, USAF. He got involved with Korean War POWs. If you remember the Manchurian Candidate, this is the type of thing he studied.
Because of his groundbreaking research on brainwashing, and his military background, the CIA became very interested in him and brought him into Project MK Ultra. I’m sure nobody reading this needs an explanation of what Project MK Ultra was.
Anyway, Dr. West was pulled away from MK Ultra to “treat” Jack Ruby in Dallas. After this treatment, Dr. West’s recommendation to the CIA was that Ruby be administered Sodium Pentathol and be hypnotized.
What was the CIA’s response to Dr. West? Those documents were destroyed, because of course they were.
Just dumb luck, right?
Jack Ruby’s mental state rapidly deteriorated after Dr. West’s visits. Jack Ruby’s friends and family who knew him were shocked at how incoherent he was at the end. Of course, that was just his body weakening due to cancer, right? Of course it was. How ridiculous do you have to be to think that an MK Ultra psychiatrist, who had no reason to even see Jack Ruby, ended up alone with him in a cell and then after the visits, became incoherent. Thats all just a coincidence!
I’m not going to go all the way into it, but Jack Ruby dropped hints that there might be something more going on. Many people believe this spooked the CIA, and that’s why they brought in Dr. West.
But I do have a few questions:
1) Who ordered and authorized Dr. West to go treat Jack Ruby?
2) Wouldn’t it have made sense to have a psychologist in Dallas who was actually treating people see Ruby?
3). Does it even make sense that a psychiatrist out of state, who was working on experimental brainwashing techniques, and not treating patients, be the guy to treat Ruby?
Anyway, there are dozens upon dozens of articles and videos about Dr. West and Jack Ruby.
If Oswald killed JFK alone, and if Ruby killed Oswald alone, why is MK Ultra involved in all of this?
Shut up conspiracist! Dr. West’s involvement is inconsequential.
Sure, I found that information, and I am very familiar with MK Ultra. But none of that proves that West or the CIA "fried Ruby's brain". That's the part of the story I have been unable to corroborate which is why I was asking for more information. So for now I have to assume that is speculation.
I'm not saying it is impossible. But there would have been plenty of witnesses if West had actually done this. And by now they would have came forward.
Yes there are many articles and websites speculating about West and Ruby, but almost all of the ones I saw were not especially credible sources, like "muckrock.com". This is why I was hoping you had something more substantial.
DALLAS Ufl—Condemned slayer Jack Ruby took advantage of his jailer's momentary absence early yesterday to ram his head into the wall of his cell in what Sheriff Bill Decker called "a deliberate act. "Apparently he suffered only a knot on his head," the Sheriff said. The convicted slayer of accused presidential assassin Lee Harvey Oswald was rushed under heavy guard to a Dallas hospital for a physical examination but Decker said that x-rays of his head revealed no injury. But when he was returned to his cell, Ruby attempted to rip his clothing into strips, Sheriff Decker said . As a precautionary measure the few furnishings were removed from Ruby's cell, leaving him only a mattress.
The sheriff gave newsmen his account:
Ruby had refused to go to bed and had been talking with one of the guards who are assigned to watch him on a round-the-clock basis. About 1 a.m. Ruby asked the guard for a drink of water. Just as the jailer started to leave the cell, Ruby lowered his head , took several fast steps and rammed his head against the cell wall. The guard, who stepped back into the cell quickly and restrained him, said Ruby did not lose consciousness. The jail doctor was called immediately. He found an abrasion on the scalp, but no cut.
Later yesterday Ruby was visited in his cell by Dr. Louis Jolyon West of the Oklahoma School of Medicine, a psychiatrist recently engaged by the defense counsel. Dr. West declined to reveal his findings to newsmen.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The point here is that Ruby was already acting in a delusional possibly psychotic manner BEFORE Dr. West came to see him later in the day on April 26. This does not disprove the idea that West somehow "fried Ruby's brain" during his brief visit, but it definitely weakens that theory.
Last edited by GearHeadDave; 12-13-2023 at 06:46 AM..
Sure, I found that information, and I am very familiar with MK Ultra. But none of that proves that West or the CIA "fried Ruby's brain". That's the part of the story I have been unable to corroborate which is why I was asking for more information. So for now I have to assume that is speculation.
I'm not saying it is impossible. But there would have been plenty of witnesses if West had actually done this. And by now they would have came forward.
Yes there are many articles and websites speculating about West and Ruby, but almost all of the ones I saw were not especially credible sources, like "muckrock.com".
Witnesses? Are you serious? They would’ve cleared the cells and that portion of the jail, and the only people that would’ve been in there were MK Ultra staff.
But since you are interested, I will help you out.
There is a 19 minute video on You Tube Called “ Jack Ruby’s Court Appointed Shrink was an MK Uktra Doc”
This is a Joe Rogan podcast and has been viewed 1.4 million times. The guest is a guy who wrote a book on all of this.
He lays out clear evidence that West fried Ruby’s brain.
Witnesses? Are you serious? They would’ve cleared the cells and that portion of the jail, and the only people that would’ve been in there were MK Ultra staff.
But since you are interested, I will help you out.
There is a 19 minute video on You Tube Called “ Jack Ruby’s Court Appointed Shrink was an MK Uktra Doc”
This is a Joe Rogan podcast and has been viewed 1.4 million times. The guest is a guy who wrote a book on all of this.
He lays out clear evidence that West fried Ruby’s brain.
You aren't suggesting that a Joe Rogan podcast is a credible source of information are you? I have no doubt whatsoever that 1.4 million people spent the time to watch it. This does not mean it is credible or supported by evidence.
I am a lot more interested in the facts surrounding the arrest, detention and trial of Ruby. Particularly in the period of time before the visit of Dr. West.
This is the record of a psychiatric examination of Ruby in December 27 1963, months before the West visit. It is a long read but essential to anyone wanting to know more about the state of mind of Ruby before the alleged "brain frying" of Dr. West.
Point is, as far as I can tell, the idea that the CIA were involved in a cover-up through the machinations of Dr. West is pure speculation. Of course we are all free to speculate in any way we wish. Some speculations (guesses) seem more reasonable on the surface but when you start digging you realize there is precious little to support them.
You aren't suggesting that a Joe Rogan podcast is a credible source of information are you? I have no doubt whatsoever that 1.4 million people spent the time to watch it. This does not mean it is credible or supported by evidence.
I am a lot more interested in the facts surrounding the arrest, detention and trial of Ruby. Particularly in the period of time before the visit of Dr. West.
This is the record of a psychiatric examination of Ruby in December 27 1963, months before the West visit. It is a long read but essential to anyone wanting to know more about the state of mind of Ruby before the alleged "brain frying" of Dr. West.
Point is, as far as I can tell, the idea that the CIA were involved in a cover-up through the machinations of Dr. West is pure speculation. Of course we are all free to speculate in any way we wish. Some speculations (guesses) seem more reasonable on the surface but when you start digging you realize there is precious little to support them.
You are free to believe whatever you want to.
The guy that was on that Rogan podcast is Tom O’Neill. He has written 28 books, and he has done extensive research on MK Ultra. Jack Ruby just happens to cross into his research since Dr. West is involved.
As far as a Joe Rogan podcast being “credible”, that’s irrelevant. The only thing that matters is if you think Tom O’Neill is credible, and I do think he is a credible author and researcher.
Here is the bottom line: If you think an MK Ultra psychiatrist being in Ruby’s cell is no big deal, then we are pretty much done with this conversation.
The CIA was absolutely involved with Ruby, and for you to state that it is just speculation is ridiculous. He was in his damn cell for crying out loud! That isn’t speculation, that’s a fact.
i agree, joe rogan is irrelevant. (for many reasons)
tom is selling books, like 28 according to your info.
how do you sell books? well one way is, you take a fact and build wild speculation that is without fact, because that sells, just like fear sells.
that is why news is littered with speculation that is not fact. news is for sale, not for fact finding.
i don't have any problem with you buying and reading tom's books. i don't even have a problem with you believing what he says. i just don't agree with speculation that is not factual.
do you think dr west could have been on a fact finding mission, using his expertise and not a brain frying mission? i do.
but, that would not sell 28 books.
i agree, joe rogan is irrelevant. (for many reasons)
tom is selling books, like 28 according to your info.
how do you sell books? well one way is, you take a fact and build wild speculation that is without fact, because that sells, just like fear sells.
that is why news is littered with speculation that is not fact. news is for sale, not for fact finding.
i don't have any problem with you buying and reading tom's books. i don't even have a problem with you believing what he says. i just don't agree with speculation that is not factual.
do you think dr west could have been on a fact finding mission, using his expertise and not a brain frying mission? i do.
but, that would not sell 28 books.
The same old tired argument. Anyone who doesn’t agree with the Warren Report is just trying to make money.
Anyone who isn’t trying to make money, but just happens to believe that a conspiracy took place, is a nut job.
Attack the messenger and ignore the message since you don’t know enough about the material to understand what actually happened.
The guy that was on that Rogan podcast is Tom O’Neill. He has written 28 books, and he has done extensive research on MK Ultra. Jack Ruby just happens to cross into his research since Dr. West is involved.
As far as a Joe Rogan podcast being “credible”, that’s irrelevant. The only thing that matters is if you think Tom O’Neill is credible, and I do think he is a credible author and researcher.
Here is the bottom line: If you think an MK Ultra psychiatrist being in Ruby’s cell is no big deal, then we are pretty much done with this conversation.
The CIA was absolutely involved with Ruby, and for you to state that it is just speculation is ridiculous. He was in his damn cell for crying out loud! That isn’t speculation, that’s a fact.
You are deliberately putting words in my mouth.
I didn't say that Dr. West being assigned to Ruby was "no big deal", it's very intriguing and deserves further investigation.
You are correct in stating that the CIA was "involved with Ruby", if by that you mean that West was assigned to him as his psychiatrist. That is a proven substantiated fact.
What is speculation is the the CIA somehow "brain fried" Ruby, to use your words.
I have yet to see any evidence that this happened. Which leaves us with two possible explanations; either the CIA did not compromise Ruby and trigger his mental decline; or they did somehow accomplish this and they covered their tracks well enough so that no one will ever know.
This is not a matter of "belief" it is a matter of whether there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. If the evidence of CIA manipulation of Ruby is out there we would all be interested to see it. Until then this idea remains in the realm of circumstantial speculation or theory.
Odds are good that we will never know with certainty, of course we are all free to believe whatever we want.
I didn't say that Dr. West being assigned to Ruby was "no big deal", it's very intriguing and deserves further investigation.
You are correct in stating that the CIA was "involved with Ruby", if by that you mean that West was assigned to him as his psychiatrist. That is a proven substantiated fact.
What is speculation is the the CIA somehow "brain fried" Ruby, to use your words.
I have yet to see any evidence that this happened. Which leaves us with two possible explanations; either the CIA did not compromise Ruby and trigger his mental decline; or they did somehow accomplish this and they covered their tracks well enough so that no one will ever know.
This is not a matter of "belief" it is a matter of whether there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. If the evidence of CIA manipulation of Ruby is out there we would all be interested to see it. Until then this idea remains in the realm of circumstantial speculation or theory.
Odds are good that we will never know with certainty, of course we are all free to believe whatever we want.
It isn’t speculation at all that Ruby deteriorated immediately after meeting with Dr. West. Many authors have written about this, including the one I just mentioned who was being interviewed by Rogan. You ignored him and keep stating you have no evidence ?
What kind of evidence do you need? Do you want a video of Dr. West shooting him up with Sodium thiopental, LSD, or any other MK Ultra experimental drug?
It’s also a known fact that after Dr. West’s initial consult, all future documents on this subject were destroyed.
You also aren’t going to get mainstream media to flip as they are nothing more than state run tv, aka Operation Mockingbird.
The CIA isn’t stupid, they aren’t going to leave a smoking gun.
So you can keep looking for evidence that doesn’t exist, or you can use your own critical thinking. Ruby met with an MK Ultra psychiatrist. That alone is enough for me to become very suspicious.
Do you have any links or other information regarding item 7? I did a quick search but didn't find anything credible about the CIA "frying Ruby's brain".
Item 7 is the only one you need links for? What about all the rest of it? Good grief!
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