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Not sure why anyone would be so invested in an event that happened >60 years ago. JFK is still dead, as are all the others. 178 pages of sorta/if/maybe/coulda will not change one thing.
This thread needs to be closed. A mercy killing, as it were...
Not sure why anyone would be so invested in an event that happened >60 years ago. JFK is still dead, as are all the others. 178 pages of sorta/if/maybe/coulda will not change one thing.
This thread needs to be closed. A mercy killing, as it were...
If you're not interested just stay away from this discussion. A lot of people tend to be interested in mysteries and lots of people aren't thrilled with the way our government handles things. Those of us who lived through the assassination were probably somewhat traumatized and will never be able to forget. There's nothing wrong with discussing it, no matter what you think. Personally, I find it therapeutic.
If you're not interested just stay away from this discussion. A lot of people tend to be interested in mysteries and lots of people aren't thrilled with the way our government handles things. Those of us who lived through the assassination were probably somewhat traumatized and will never be able to forget. There's nothing wrong with discussing it, no matter what you think. Personally, I find it therapeutic.
I consider this to be a fun hobby of mine watching as many videos and reading as much as I can. It’s fascinating when you really dig into the millions of hours of research people have done over the years. The most basic facts in the Warren Report do not add up at all.
But I also understand the mindset of some people who have barely glossed over the topic, don’t really know much about it, and is waiting on the government to tell them what to think next. I used to be one of those people. So to them, since the government rarely comments on this, other than to continue to hide documents, they feel like there is nothing new on this topic, which isn’t true at all. There have been plenty of new facts discovered over the years that the government doesn’t acknowledge.
There is no question in my mind, none, that the Z film we have all seen has been doctored. It was doctored by the CIA at Hawkeye labs Rochester, NY, just like you mentioned.
Dino Brugioni, a highly decorated intelligence analyst with the CIA, and the leading expert of reconnaissance photography and video of that time, went on record and stated that the Z film he initially seen, was not the Z film in the National Archives. The original film was destroyed.
Mr. Brugioni is a highly respected and highly credible witness to all of this, and there are very few Warren defenders who will even bother to question his credibility. They usually just (uncomfortably) ignore this part of the conspiracy.
Anyone, even an expert, can be mistaken, but even if he was right it doesn't matter. Why do missing frames mean coverup? Put the supposed missing frames back in and what do you have? What do you think was removed that was so important? The head explosion showing something other than what the "edited" version shows? Some minor twitch of his body that would blow the whole thing wide open and "prove" a 2nd gunman? Lol? Hilarious! Missing frames would prove nothing. The "missing frames" and the other one hundred and fifty-two elements of the complicated conspiracy will still fail to shed any useful light on any supposed conspiracy. Its another rabbit hole that leads only to more rabbit holes.
But wait: Are some of the Zapruder frames “missing”? https://www.jfk.org/zapruder-faq/ No. Six frames, from two different parts of the original film, were accidentally damaged by LIFE magazine personnel while they were preparing pictures for publication. Fortunately, three duplicate copies were made of the original film before the damage occurred. Two of those films are stored at the National Archives in Washington, D.C., and the third is in the Museum’s Zapruder Collection. The copy now in the Museum’s collection was apparently also damaged when it was at LIFE and it, too, may be lacking one or two of the “missing” frames. All frames of the film are accounted for at the National Archives.
As you surely know, the original has been examined by another expert from Kodak, Roland Zavada, the foremost expert on the film type used, and he determined the film is intact and unedited. Why does his expert opinion carry any more weight than Brugioni's? Because he actually examined the film itself for proof of nefarious edits, and actually used his professional expertise with Kodachrome films in analyzing it. Brugioni's statements about the film do not involve his image analysis expertise at all. They are merely observational statements about differences he recollects about the projected film (not the physical film) years later, subject to all the vagaries and errors of memory. Do you understand the vast difference between these two opinions, and why one carries much weight and the other carries very little? I doubt it. And I don't think you will try.
Last edited by Deserterer; 01-22-2024 at 09:54 AM..
Anyone, even an expert, can be mistaken, but even if he was right it doesn't matter. Why do missing frames mean coverup? Put the supposed missing frames back in and what do you have? What do you think was removed that was so important? The head explosion showing something other than what the "edited" version shows? Some minor twitch of his body that would blow the whole thing wide open and "prove" a 2nd gunman? Lol? Hilarious! Missing frames would prove nothing. The "missing frames" and the other one hundred and fifty-two elements of the complicated conspiracy will still fail to shed any useful light on any supposed conspiracy. Its another rabbit hole that leads only to more rabbit holes.
But wait: Are some of the Zapruder frames “missing”? https://www.jfk.org/zapruder-faq/ No. Six frames, from two different parts of the original film, were accidentally damaged by LIFE magazine personnel while they were preparing pictures for publication. Fortunately, three duplicate copies were made of the original film before the damage occurred. Two of those films are stored at the National Archives in Washington, D.C., and the third is in the Museum’s Zapruder Collection. The copy now in the Museum’s collection was apparently also damaged when it was at LIFE and it, too, may be lacking one or two of the “missing” frames. All frames of the film are accounted for at the National Archives.
As you surely know, the original has been examined by another expert from Kodak, Roland Zavada, the foremost expert on the film type used, and he determined the film is intact and unedited. Why does his expert opinion carry any more weight than Brugioni's? Because he actually examined the film itself for proof of nefarious edits, and actually used his professional expertise with Kodachrome films in analyzing it. Brugioni's statements about the film do not involve his image analysis expertise at all. They are merely observational statements about differences he recollects about the projected film (not the physical film) years later, subject to all the vagaries and errors of memory. Do you understand the vast difference between these two opinions, and why one carries much weight and the other carries very little? I doubt it. And I don't think you will try.
The version that Life Magazine received had already been doctored at Hawkeye Labs. So when Life damaged the film, it wasn’t the original.
So what was doctored out? Frames were taken out to edit out the vehicle stop, and a portion of the video was reversed in order to show the head recoiling from a shot behind instead of recoiling from a forward shot.
Even Zavada acknowledges that the film he inspected had already been developed at Hawkeye Labs, which is exactly what Brugioni said happened.
There is a long You Tube video that talks about the chain of custody from Zapruder to Hawkeye Labs, which involves the FBI, secret service, and the CIA.
Here is a statement from Zavada, "If somebody had altered the film, they had to do it in a way that I couldn't see."
Here is a statement from Brugioni after watching the archived video for the first time, the so called ‘original’. “This isn’t the same film we had at Hawkeye. This isn’t the same film that I made storyboards off of.”
So that leaves us with a couple of questions:
1) Did Hawkeye Labs have the capability to edit video without telltale traces of editing? According to many experts, they did have that capability. So Zavada not finding anything isn’t surprising.
2) What happened to the original film? According to Brugioni, after they did the storyboards, he believes the video was altered after he went off shift by two of his coworkers, and then the film was taken by a CIA agent. My theory is that it was destroyed in 1975 when the Church Committee demanded access to CIA files.
This issue gets back to the central disconnect between Warren believers and Conspiracy believers. Warren believers like to exclude any opinion or witness that doesn’t fit their narrative.
Brugioni said it wasn’t the same film? He must be mistaken!
Zavada says he can find no evidence of tampering. Case closed!
I have not read all the posts, but when RFK, Jr. says he is convinced the CIA was behind the assassination of his uncle, and his father thought so too, then that is what I think.
Prove it. But read up on the definition of "prove" first.
Either you believe a very credible patriot like Brugioni, or you believe a corrupt government led by ruthless, evil people like LBJ, Allen Dulles, and. J. Edgar Hoover.
That’s really what it all boils down to. You are free to keep believing in your government, no matter how many times throughout history they have been proven to be corrupt and evil.
I have not read all the posts, but when RFK, Jr. says he is convinced the CIA was behind the assassination of his uncle, and his father thought so too, then that is what I think.
RFK, Jr. is a nut. His paranoid anti-vaccination views are proof of that.
I always remind people. He's a recovering heroin addict. He has never held any elected or appointed political office. His own family has taken out an editorial saying that they do not agree with his views and do not support his candidacy for President. All he has is a name. He is nothing like his father. He believes his father was the victim of an assassination conspiracy too. He is a poor authority on virtually anything.
Every act that happened in this country in the last sixty years is not a conspiracy. Yet, some would have us believe that.
RFK, Jr. is a nut. His paranoid anti-vaccination views are proof of that.
I always remind people. He's a recovering heroin addict. He has never held any elected or appointed political office. His own family has taken out an editorial saying that they do not agree with his views and do not support his candidacy for President. All he has is a name. He is nothing like his father. He believes his father was the victim of an assassination conspiracy too. He is a poor authority on virtually anything.
Every act that happened in this country in the last sixty years is not a conspiracy. Yet, some would have us believe that.
Attack the messenger. That’s literally all you do. Either he is a nut or he is in it for the money. The government can’t possibly be wrong, it’s all these hundreds of witnesses and researchers that are wrong.
You have brought very little to this discussion, despite posting multiple times, because you don’t know anything. You are a novice on this topic.
The RFK assassination deserves its own thread because, par for the course, there are serious problems with the official account. There are also problems with the MLK assassination. That deserves its own thread, too.
But getting back to the JFK assassination, if RFK Jr says he has problems with it, that is a valid input. He has talked to people that we have not.
Lastly, I don’t put a lot of stock in family members who trash their own relatives. This is another tired tactic that the government uses. Carrot or stick, doesn’t matter, just get them to talk bad about a relative.
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