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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 2 days ago)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
I try to be open minded. If a Christian could give me just one verifiable truth to support their beliefs in Jesus I could accept it.
There aren't any, even in the bible. All the miracles are open to interpretation.
Lazarus was placed in the tomb freshly dead, and when Jesus called him forth out of the tomb, he was pale and sick and weak. You have to have faith to believe he actually WAS dead when he was placed in there and was called back to life by Jesus - someone without faith would say he wasn't actually dead, he just had an incredibly weak pulse and during those days of lying in the tomb, began to recover. Open to interpretation.
When Jesus rose from the dead on Easter morning, and appeared to the women in front of the tomb who had come to wash his body, they didn't recognize him. It wasn't until he spoke, one of the women realized it was in fact Jesus, whom she knew very very well. When he appeared to his Thomas, his disciple, he also didn't recognize him. No one did.
It's faith. You have it, or you don't, and demanding "debate style" proof isn't going to convince you of anything, if you aren't led by the spirit to believe.
My prayers have been answered. I don’t know why some have not. I think that there are souls in heaven looking after me, and guiding me, but I cannot answer for others.
In Buddhism we are taught to be very selective about with whom we associate. So if you've been to hell...why should we listen to you?
I've also been to the Buddhist Self-Realization Fellowship Temple Lake Shire in Pacific Palisades / Lake Shrine, and the Buddhist Self-Realization Fellowship Mediation Gardens in Encinitas, CA Encinitas Temple. Both of these are lovely places and I highly recommend that people of all faiths visit there.
I've also been to the Buddhist Self-Realization Fellowship Temple Lake Shire in Pacific Palisades / Lake Shrine, and the Buddhist Self-Realization Fellowship Mediation Gardens in Encinitas, CA Encinitas Temple. Both of these are lovely places and I highly recommend that people of all faiths visit there.
I notice you didn't answer the question, but instead changed the topic.
There aren't any, even in the bible. All the miracles are open to interpretation.
Lazarus was placed in the tomb freshly dead, and when Jesus called him forth out of the tomb, he was pale and sick and weak. You have to have faith to believe he actually WAS dead when he was placed in there and was called back to life by Jesus - someone without faith would say he wasn't actually dead, he just had an incredibly weak pulse and during those days of lying in the tomb, began to recover. Open to interpretation.
When Jesus rose from the dead on Easter morning, and appeared to the women in front of the tomb who had come to wash his body, they didn't recognize him. It wasn't until he spoke, one of the women realized it was in fact Jesus, whom she knew very very well. When he appeared to his Thomas, his disciple, he also didn't recognize him. No one did.
It's faith. You have it, or you don't, and demanding "debate style" proof isn't going to convince you of anything, if you aren't led by the spirit to believe.
Well, the key word in that sentence was "verifiable", Clara. How do you verify a story like Lazarus rising from the dead? For that matter, how do you verify the story of Dionysus being cured of madness by the goddess, Cybele? Are there secondary sources for either story that are reliable and verifiable? If not then why do you believe the story of Lazarus and not the story of Dionysus? Doesn't make sense, unless we agree that Christians accept the story of Lazarus rising purely on faith without evidence, and Greeks accept the story of Cybele curing Dionysus of madness purely on faith without evidence. Not a dime's worth of difference far as I can tell, so both are equally possible.
Would you agree that it's possible Cybele did cure Dionysus of madness? Would you be inclined to accept it on faith?
My life has become no more difficult since I became an atheist in any case. These are assumptions or presumptions forever made about believing in God that religious people just don't seem able or willing to accept. Becoming an atheist was rather liberating in fact, and it has helped me to live a more simple, honest and comfortable life. A life, that if there were a God, might very likely approve. One I always feel is better than I deserve. Free of many fears, concerns and "baggage" that it seems so many religious people must carry one way or another.
First of all LearnMe, I really enjoy reading your posts. You're one of the sweetest atheists I've ever run across on this forum.
I realize people believe in things that are false. This is the reason why Jesus came down from the Heavens in 1914-1922 to write the hundreds of messages that he did. I know that it may seem ludicrous to think that he would do such a thing, but the fact is that Jesus is a spirit. He can come to the earth any time he feels like it. He is also the Master of the Celestial Heavens, which means that he is the King, as some may say. But God isn't in the same Heaven. For all I know, He may be further away from us than Pluto.
Jesus wrote this message "Who and What is God" on May 25, 1917:
I am here, Jesus;
I have been with you as you prayed, and joined in your prayer to the Father for the inflowing of His Great Love into your soul in great abundance; and I know that His Holy Spirit is present, that His Love is flowing into your soul, and that you are becoming in at-onement with the Father. His Love will always come to you when you pray as you have tonight, and His listening Ear is always open to the earnest aspirations of His children who come to Him with the true longings of the soul. You have the secret of reaching the Father's Love, and on all occasions, when you feel that you need that Love, or desire a nearness to the Father, use the secret and you will not be disappointed...
Then, the question is: "Who and What is God?" In dealing with this question, you must realize that it is not so easy to describe the Essence and Attributes of God in language that mortals can comprehend. And I feel the limitations that I am under in endeavoring to give you a satisfactory description of the only and true God, not because of the paucity of knowledge and conception on my part, but because of the fact that you have not the required soul development to enable me to form the necessary rapport with you, in order that the exact Truth as to Who the Father is may be expressed through your brain.
Well to begin, God is Soul, and Soul is God. Not the soul that is in the created man, but the Soul that is Deity and self-existent, without beginning or ending, and Whose Entity is the one great fact in the universe of being.
God is without form, such as has been conceived of by man in nearly all ages, and especially by those who believe in the Bible of the Hebrews, as well as in that of the Christians. But nevertheless, He is of a Form which only the soul perceptions of the soul of a man who has arrived at a certain degree of development, can discern and realize as an entity.
There is nothing in all nature with which men are acquainted or have knowledge of, that can be used to make a comparison with this Great Soul, even with the spirit perceptions; hence, for men to conceive of God as having a form in any manner resembling that of man is all erroneous. Only those who deny the anthropomorphic God in their beliefs and teachings are correct.
But nevertheless, God is of Form such as to give Him an Entity and Substance and Seat of Habitation, in contradistinction to that God which (in the teachings of some men) is said to be everywhere in this Substance and Entity (in the trees and rocks, in thunder and lightning, in men and beasts, in all created things) and in Whom men are said to live and move and have their being.
No, this concept of God is not in accord with the truth, and it is vital to the knowledge and salvation of men, that such conception of God be not entertained or believed in. To believe that God is without form is to believe that He is a mere force or principle or nebulous power and, as some say, the resultant of laws. However, as a fact, God has established these laws for the controlling of His Universe of Creation, and they are expressed and made manifest to men by these very powers and principles that, to some extent, men can comprehend.
The child has asked: "Who made God?" And because the wise men cannot answer that question, in their "wisdom" they conclude and assert that there can be no real God of Personality or Soul Form; hence only force, principle or evolved laws can be God. In their own conceit they think that they have solved the question. But the child may not be satisfied with the answer, and may ask the wise men: "Who made principle and force and laws that must be accepted as the only God?" And then the wise men cannot answer, unless they answer: "God" - which they do not believe, but which, let me say, is the true and only answer.
God is in back of force and principle and law, which are all only expressions of His Being, and which could not exist without Him. These expressions are only existences; changeable, dependent, and subject to the Will of God, Who only Is Being.
God, then, is Soul. And that Soul has Its Form, perceptible only to Itself, or that soul of man who, by reason of the sufficient possession of the very Substance of the Great Soul, has become like unto God - not in image only, but in very essence. We spirits of the highest soul progression are enabled to see God and His Form by our soul perceptions. But here, I use the words "see" and "form" as being the only words that I can use to give mortals a comparative conception of what I am endeavoring to describe...
Well, in addition to Form, God has a Personality; and this is expressed and made known to man by certain attributes which, to the consciousness of man, are existent in the universe. But to some philosophers and scientists and wise men, these attributes are their impersonal god himself, and to them the only god. They make the created, the creator, not realizing that behind the expression must be the Cause; and that greater than the attribute must be that from which the expression of the attribute is projected, or as they better like to say, evolved.
And here I, who know, desire to say that these manifested attributes or forces and powers and principles and laws and expressions do not, all together, constitute God. His attributes or expressions, manifested to mortals or spirits, are only the results or effects of the workings of His Spirit, which Spirit is only the active energy of His Soul - Himself. And hence, the Form of God is not distributed over the whole universe of creation, where His attributes may be, or simply because these attributes are manifested everywhere.
No, as was said by Moses of old, and as was said by me when on earth, God is in His Heavens. And although it may be surprising and startling to mortals to hear, God has His habitation; and God, the Substance, the Self-Existing Soul Form, has His locality. And men do not live and move and have their existence in God - but they do in His emanations and expressions and spirit.
As you are somewhat exhausted, I think this is a good place to stop. I am pleased that you are in such good condition. So be prepared for an early resumption of the message.
With my love and blessings, I will say good night.
I will clarify what I mean by “follow Him.” In my spiritual belief, God wants His children to pray for His Divine Love, so that we may become as He is. Not as mini-Gods, but as holy and loving children. This Love has a cleansing power which removes sins off of our souls. So it is in this way that I follow God. I am doing what He wishes, and I am reaping the benefits.
As to life not being easier, were those people praying and receiving God’s Divine Love? If not, then there’s a reason. The majority of people who I know are people of faith and they are purifying their natural love - the love that we’re born with. And that’s a good thing, but I do not believe their personal relationship with God is different than mine except for the fact that my soul is transforming into a state of perfection. This is a long process which takes a lifetime to accomplish.
Let’s just say that I’ve been to hell and back in this life, and I know that I don’t want to go there when it’s my turn to leave this planet. Hence, the reason that I am following the will of God.
They could be people who prayed for but did not receive God's Divine Love. That is what some former Christians keep telling you. They prayed, and they believed, they asked Jesus to come into their heart, but they either were not chosen by God, or they decided that God must not exist because no answer ever came.
I don't call people liars when they say "Aspirin doesn't do a thing for me", or "I know when the contestant on Jeopardy has requested the Daily Double, before the sign flips over" just because I don't experience those things.
When I need guidance, and direction, I pray out loud "Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Yahweh, My Savior, Reveal yourself!" and I get answers. I get help. And I really don't care what people say about that, and whether they think it's true or not just because THEY might not get answers when they pray. And the answers come so fast, and so clearly, and sometimes in a truly humorous way, that I really don't care about whether other people don't experience that - I experience it.
Also, the prayer "St. Anthony, St. Anthony, Look Around, Something is Lost and Must be Found", works for me every single time, and I don't care who says it doesn't work for them. That's your life, this is mine, and my truth.
Yes. Other people say the same as you. They pray, and they get help/comfort or what they sought.
Others do not. At Ieast you are honest that you don't care that others don't get what you do. Most of the time the people who claim to get prayers answered enjoy telling us that it's our own fault.
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Have a nice evening.
