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The UI bump ended fall 2021. For half the states, May-June 2021.
It's 2023. Come on.
It's the wages PLUS living costs. It's not worth it to work in a lot of scenarios. Everything's so expensive, working 40 hrs won't buy me anything of value I can't buy working 15 hrs of gig jobs. So I might as well buy my time.
You can't unring a bell. You can't unsee something. Once you have had a taste of free money you'll never want to work for it again.
If you actually believed her with regard to not taking a day off in 3 years, I have a bridge to sell you. My number #1 rule is if someone is talking about something a lot, 99% of the time they’re either putting on a facade or outright lying.
Love this. I think I've always had this suspicion, but never articulated it quite this succinctly. Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation
I don't want to be one of "those old guys," but...
I'm 36. My girlfriend's son, daughter, daughter's boyfriend are all 18-23. They all have, to me, a shocking lack of critical thinking skills. The daughter's boyfriend is dumb as a box of rocks.
When I talk to most people that age, most of them don't seem to be able to focus for very long, nor carry a deeper conversation. They might know the answer to something, but it feels more like a rote memorization rather than actually working through a problem.
Are there exceptions? Sure there are, but I blame a lot of this on having a cell phone in hand from an early age. Technology should be a tool to augment your own understanding and thinking skills, not working as a replacement for it.
I think that's a big reason why older workers are in demand.
I'm not convinced that older prior generations are really any better at critical thinking. Look at how easily so many of them were frothed into a fury sitting at home watching the news. The main difference is that they have an entrenched confidence in their own views that younger people haven't achieved yet.
Re: older workers in demand... my company recently offered a voluntary buyout (formal program with a name, not just random offers) to incent some older workers to retire. The criteria they used to select people was attained age and years of service. Many of them took the offer. So pardon my side-eye at the notion that "older workers are in demand". YMMV.
You can't unring a bell. You can't unsee something. Once you have had a taste of free money you'll never want to work for it again.
At some point they need to eat and live.
From what In an tell, this is what's happenning: Wage comoression, housing shortage, labor shortage.
With the labor shortage, you can get a job paying 15-25 an hour at will. Anytime you want. 20 an hour won't buy you a house or apartment rent on its own. So you live at home or with a bunch of roommates. Like a BUNCH! I've known young people to share houses among like 5-7 people. With your costs split so many ways you don't need to work the 40 hours. PT will do it. Living on your own is so out of reach you don't try. If you want to try, you csn start whenever you feel like.
We are so short of housing and printed so much money we have made housing the most unaffordable it's ever been. It's so out of reach many have stopped trying. If you're not trying for housing you can live on a lot less.
Salary compression: If I work at McDonald's at 22 an hour, if it's FT I make 43k a year. And indeed the McDs by me is hiring FT crew members at $22 an hour.
A lot of middle class degreed jobs still pay between 40-65k a year. Most of them. I don't even need to graduate high school to work at McDonalds, and it's 43k a year?? In my area a starting teacher makes 49k a tear (using that as a proxy for middle class medium skilled job that requires a degree). McDonald's only pays 9% less. The difference in effort, skill stress level, preparation, education, etc... between McDs and a teacher is more than 9%.
For example when I started teaching which was 2010, the job paid 44k. That was roughly double what my service and retail jobs paid, which were in the 10-12 an hour range. Now it would only be a 10% bump? It's NOT WORTH IT to get the degree and pursue the middle class jobs. For anyone.
So people work when they feel like it, because so many job classes are equally crappy now, and they're open whenever you feel like working. They only get education and training, which is very expensive, for jobs they absolutely WANT.
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So is everything else. Housing, food, utilities, vehicles - anything you need to live.
In 2001 I was making $10 an hour and was able to easily afford cable and $545 a month in rent. Well, the rent now is $1200 to $1500. Even if my pay was doubled to $20 an hour, that lowest rent is still more, proportionately, than it was before and everything else has gone up as well.
If wages had kept up with inflation, they would be, at minimum, $26 an hour.
Wages vs Inflation: Can Your Income Keep Up With Rising Prices?
That is more than I made in 2001! My parents were paying $75 a month for a $15,000 house they bought then. No wonder boomers were able to buy houses when they got married, have kids, and work their way through college. On one salary, no less.
“We pay the low-wage workers in our economy roughly 40% less than we did more than 50 years ago. That just blows my mind because we are a much richer country now.”
A lot of middle class degreed jobs still pay between 40-65k a year. Most of them. I don't even need to graduate high school to work at McDonalds, and it's 43k a year?? In my area a starting teacher makes 49k a tear (using that as a proxy for middle class medium skilled job that requires a degree). McDonald's only pays 9% less. The difference in effort, skill stress level, preparation, education, etc... between McDs and a teacher is more than 9%.
For example when I started teaching which was 2010, the job paid 44k. That was roughly double what my service and retail jobs paid, which were in the 10-12 an hour range. Now it would only be a 10% bump? It's NOT WORTH IT to get the degree and pursue the middle class jobs. For anyone.
If they paid the same I would choose being a teacher.
Did your job as a teacher buy you a lifestyle of sitting around in a heated and A/Ced pleasant home with high speed internet so you could post on CD Forum?
Then it did its job.
Not everybody is owed being able to pay off a 600K house mortgage and have 25 years of retirement sipping Pina Coladas.
It's a game. If you wanted that, then you shouldn't have become a teacher. You should have worked for my old company and got the right people to like you.
Or you should have married my sister.
If it makes you feel better, it's likely I won't have those things and my education is pretty darn good. I don't care either. And trust me. Nobody else cares either.
I'm still going to work hard, if it's at McDonalds, so be it.
I view jobs as jobs and most lower paid jobs have more of a direct benefit to society. Everybody needs a job and should look for a job that matches best.
I'm not a hypocrite and I have no problem driving Uber even though I have 'degrees and experience'.
That said if more middle aged people were open to taking paycuts and stepping down it would benefit YOU. Think it through...
Prob best to disengage from that back and forth… the concept doesn’t appear to be understood. But Peter Turchin has spoken on exactly what you’re suggesting via your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43
I'm a retiree, and it cracks me up. A friend went on a quick rant on how "nobody wants to work!!!"
Then went on to say later that his son, who makes very good money, is taking time off before he looks for a new job to do stuff around the house, and in general add to his quality of life right now.
I'm like, uhhhhh..... so your son is one of those not working that you ranted about?
We are short of workers. During 2021, 1M extra elders retired. We lost 500,000 working individuals to Covid. We lost 1M to long covid and to caretaking ill family members. It was another 1M lost that was associated with immigration.
And a bunch of people who took a look around and decided they wanted a job that allows to have a life too.
I can't say I blame them, it seems like a reasonable view. I come from the generation where you were expected work when your off (phone calls at 7pm, etc), where I worked 16 hours a day six days a week, where after work cocktails and constant networking were expected.
It's ridiculous, we are one of the richest countries, and we treat our workers horrible compared to other first world countries.
There are nearly 260 million traditional working age adults (18+). Pandemic can account for a 5 million workforce reduction… in a generously rounded up estimate. That’s a near two percent reduction. Something isn’t adding up. Make it make sense.
Prob best to disengage from that back and forth… the concept doesn’t appear to be understood. But Peter Turchin has spoken on exactly what you’re suggesting via your post.
There are nearly 260 million traditional working age adults (18+). Pandemic can account for a 5 million workforce reduction… in a generously rounded up estimate. That’s a near two percent reduction. Something isn’t adding up. Make it make sense.
__________________ ____________________________________________
My posts as a Mod will always be in red.
Be sure to review Terms of Service: TOS
And check this out: FAQ
Moderator: Relationships Forum / Hawaii Forum / Dogs / Pets / Current Events
Prob best to disengage from that back and forth… the concept doesn’t appear to be understood. But Peter Turchin has spoken on exactly what you’re suggesting via your post.
There are nearly 260 million traditional working age adults (18+). Pandemic can account for a 5 million workforce reduction… in a generously rounded up estimate. That’s a near two percent reduction. Something isn’t adding up. Make it make sense.
Those numbers are inflated. With a million deaths, the vast majority were over age 70 and not "working individuals". Long covid is a myth. Retirement is a short term shift and the number retiring will be declining from here on out.
But the best authority is the Dept of Labor. The size of the civilian labor force decreased in 2020 by 2.75 million but has risen each year since and 2022 was .75 million larger than pre-covid 2019. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...us-since-1990/
I'm not so sure about this because I went on a second interview for a waitressing job Friday. I have plenty of experience and was the oldest out of the 3 of us being considered. I have no drama, great work ethic and I'm very easy on the eyes. I didn't get a call back. I'm pretty disappointed as well as it was a perfect fit for both parties
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