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You wouldn't. It wouldn't be worth it to you to get all the education & training at today's college prices. I doubt you'd spend 60-100k and 4-7 years worth of education for a 55k job. I wouldn't, just as a matter of prudence.
I'm looking at changing careers. Just had a colleague get a new job for double and a half what her teaching salary was. She taught for 10 years and was good at it.
We went to the same grad school, graduated together; and have the same degree. I was top of the class and she was in the middle.
If I was in my 20s today doing what I was doing 15 years ago I probably wouldn't even have considered education a viable career. ROI just isn't there.
I just got asked to apply to a college in Miami area. Their salary range is 49-62k. That is laughable. In Miami!? Not worth my while to even think about putting the time in to apply.
If I was in my 20s and I thought I would enjoy teaching and be good at it, I absolutely would spend 60-100K to get a 55K job.
I've thought of going back and doing it in my 40s! Of course, I wouldn't have to go back for 4 years, I would just try and bridge in as a science/math/physics teacher.
Like I said, if you're even going to MENTION the word ROI, then you shouldn't have become a teacher.
That said, I've read some of your posts before and you seem like a 'real person'. If you want some ideas for higher paying careers, I have them. You can PM me too.
You see, people begin to realize that their work ethic is a mistake and that hard work does not get you places, it only gets you more work.
I work in a place like that. I like my job, and the people are generally great,
but it's in an environment where if you give an inch they'll take a mile.
So I try to set healthy boundaries, because I'm not getting any younger, and
chronic pain is becoming my new normal. If I don't take care of me, I can't
very well take care of them, and if I can manage it, I wouldn't mind just
doing what I do until I croak, hopefully no retirement necessary if I pace
myself right.
You see, people begin to realize that their work ethic is a mistake and that hard work does not get you places, it only gets you more work.
Much of the private sector corporate world operates on a 'reward at the end' model.
In other words, you're whipped at the beginning and/or middle and your reward at the end is becoming executive/ownership and then you set the rules and you do the whipping. In MY experience in engineering/science, the middle is the worst, the beginning is not too bad.
The other scenario is that you move up to 'technical executive' and are paid a lot more money, but take on a LOT more responsibility. And that's not nearly as appealing.
Sufficient to say, I've seen people who were the employees who were complaining about executives being ogres and then THEY moved into executive and were even worse.
Of course it varies a lot from company to company, but ... that's another reason an older employee is hard to fit into a more junior position at a corporate company. You can't really whip that person because they're not competing for the ultimate prize.
If I was in my 20s and I thought I would enjoy teaching and be good at it, I absolutely would spend 60-100K to get a 55K job.
I've thought of going back and doing it in my 40s! Of course, I wouldn't have to go back for 4 years, I would just try and bridge in as a science/math/physics teacher.
Like I said, if you're even going to MENTION the word ROI, then you shouldn't have become a teacher.
That said, I've read some of your posts before and you seem like a 'real person'. If you want some ideas for higher paying careers, I have them. You can PM me too.
But how would you live? You'd have to depend on a partner. You couldn't live independently.
To put this into perspective - this is an argument I made to the administration and board:
When I started teaching in 2010-11, a teaching salary in the area was more than double the wages of a FT retail/service worker. A McDonalds worker for example, got about 10 an hour back then. FT, that is about 22k a year. My first FT teaching salary was 44k. About equivalent to what a fast-food manager made. Which makes sense... you're managing a business operation and maybe 20 employees, kind of equivalent to directing the education of 25 students or groups of 25 several periods a day.
As part of my role on the negotiations team, I decided to interview the manager of the McDonalds franchise downtown near the campus. He is always dying to hire students and the sign on the door says they pay $22 an hour. He was hiring two full-time crew members at the time (a few months ago). $22 an hour FT is $45k a year.
He said they landed on that wage based on a policy of the owner telling him to raise the hourly wage rate by 50 cents every 3 weeks until SOMEONE applied. After re-opening from Covid they were getting zip-nada-zero, started off offering about $15. $22 was the rate that got people walking in the door and staying on the job more than a month or two. Prices got adjusted accordingly.
Starting teacher step in the area is 49k a year, although functional starting step is 55k. We have gotten some housewives and the like to take that, although the take rate over the last 2 years is around 35%. We have failed about 2/3 of our faculty searches ever since Covid re-opening.
Still. 10k a year difference? Why in the ever-loving world would I ever do the work to become a teacher - 4 years of college, an unpaid internship, etc... for only 20% more money than a job that I can get without even a high school diploma?? No one with a lick of economic sense who valued their time... or their life...would do that. Again, 12 years ago it was 100% more remunerative, and back then we had people lining up around the freaking block to apply.
If housewives and other dependents who don't have to support themselves are our pool, well we can keep the salary scale we have. The problem is - we seem to have tapped out that pool. The people that have options like that? Well, they have a lot of options because they have no pressure. We are competing for a shrinking pool of educated people with support and/or pre-existing money and it's just not that big of a pool.
Oh, and the store managers for that McDs franchise make about 70-75k salary with the prospect of bonuses based on total annual sales. The one I interviewed said he made around 80k last year.
But how would you live? You'd have to depend on a partner. You couldn't live independently.
To put this into perspective - this is an argument I made to the administration and board:
When I started teaching in 2010-11, a teaching salary in the area was more than double the wages of a FT retail/service worker. A McDonalds worker for example, got about 10 an hour back then. FT, that is about 22k a year. My first FT teaching salary was 44k. About equivalent to what a fast-food manager made. Which makes sense... you're managing a business operation and maybe 20 employees, kind of equivalent to directing the education of 25 students or groups of 25 several periods a day.
As part of my role on the negotiations team, I decided to interview the manager of the McDonalds franchise downtown near the campus. He is always dying to hire students and the sign on the door says they pay $22 an hour. He was hiring two full-time crew members at the time (a few months ago). $22 an hour FT is $45k a year.
He said they landed on that wage based on a policy of the owner telling him to raise the hourly wage rate by 50 cents every 3 weeks until SOMEONE applied. After re-opening from Covid they were getting zip-nada-zero, started off offering about $15. $22 was the rate that got people walking in the door and staying on the job more than a month or two. Prices got adjusted accordingly.
Starting teacher step in the area is 49k a year, although functional starting step is 55k. We have gotten some housewives and the like to take that, although the take rate over the last 2 years is around 35%. We have failed about 2/3 of our faculty searches ever since Covid re-opening.
Still. 10k a year difference? Why in the ever-loving world would I ever do the work to become a teacher - 4 years of college, an unpaid internship, etc... for only 20% more money than a job that I can get without even a high school diploma?? No one with a lick of economic sense who valued their time... or their life...would do that. Again, 12 years ago it was 100% more remunerative, and back then we had people lining up around the freaking block to apply.
If housewives and other dependents who don't have to support themselves are our pool, well we can keep the salary scale we have. The problem is - we seem to have tapped out that pool. The people that have options like that? Well, they have a lot of options because they have no pressure. We are competing for a shrinking pool of educated people with support and/or pre-existing money and it's just not that big of a pool.
Oh, and the store managers for that McDs franchise make about 70-75k salary with the prospect of bonuses based on total annual sales. The one I interviewed said he made around 80k last year.
Typical CD Forum.
Just ignore the part where I offer to help you and keep arguing...
Just ignore the part where I offer to help you and keep arguing...
Probably whining about a 85K+ a year salary.
LMAO...
I'm not really arguing about myself. I'm going to move on if it continues this way much longer.
I'm arguing for sustainability of the whole enterprise. The way they are going, it will collapse. McDonalds had to adjust its wage structure based on the new reality. They also adjusted the prices they charge to customers (menu prices are about 30% more than pre-covid from what I can tell). If they hadn't done that, the location where I interviewed that manager, would have had to close. It had customer demand for their product but no workers willing to work for their old wages. They had to adjust, in order to be in business.
A lot of middle class jobs are very resistant to making these adjustments. They seem to be hoping for some kind of extraneous event to resolve the problem for them. The public sector in particular is caught in this resistance, just... hoping... that inflation subsides and/or unemployment goes up that will make people desperate for their jobs again at the same rates they paid years ago.
I am so beyond frustrated I don't know what to do right now. There is a restaurant that is opening their 3rd location in my area. I went this morning (first in) for open interviews with my resume. I filled out their application and put that I can only work lunches and ONLY asked for Wednesday's off. They are open 11am-midnight. The "interview" lasted, I'm not kidding, 1 minute. Never asked me about my work history or anything about me. Absolutely no questions. He said we are looking for people with open availability and I said: "Don't you need a reliable opener everyday?".
Like what if I was a stripper in the evening and didn't want to disclose that info?? Or if I had 12 kids and couldn't work nights??
Restaurants are hurting for staff badly. Yet, they're immediately disqualifying seasoned qualified workers because I don't want to get scheduled doubles every day??? Or close till 1am and then be scheduled to open at 10am the next day?? Unbelievable
I am so beyond frustrated I don't know what to do right now. There is a restaurant that is opening their 3rd location in my area. I went this morning (first in) for open interviews with my resume. I filled out their application and put that I can only work lunches and ONLY asked for Wednesday's off. They are open 11am-midnight. The "interview" lasted, I'm not kidding, 1 minute. Never asked me about my work history or anything about me. Absolutely no questions. He said we are looking for people with open availability and I said: "Don't you need a reliable opener everyday?".
Like what if I was a stripper in the evening and didn't want to disclose that info?? Or if I had 12 kids and couldn't work nights??
Restaurants are hurting for staff badly. Yet, they're immediately disqualifying seasoned qualified workers because I don't want to get scheduled doubles every day??? Or close till 1am and then be scheduled to open at 10am the next day?? Unbelievable
They have been used to getting multiple applicants desperate for a job and available at any time they want. They are struggling to comprehend that the labor force is smaller and they can't get everything they want from their labor.
They have been used to getting multiple applicants desperate for a job and available at any time they want. They are struggling to comprehend that the labor force is smaller and they can't get everything they want from their labor.
But they're not. The other two locations have been hiring servers for months
"only work lunches" and "don't want to be scheduled for doubles every day" are miles and miles apart.
If you said early in the interview you can only work lunches - then that's that.
Lunches = 2 or 3 hours a day. And IN the day. Isn't it possible they wanted someone who can work 30 or 40 hours a week, and possibly they just wanted someone from 4 to close? Or 100 other reasons. Someone that says they are good for 3 hours a day, just four days a week, is pretty much a red flag in this case.
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