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Since I got my first computer 14 years ago Ive take more of an interest in my geneology, its fascinating and over the years its got so much better with all the online information... I have enjoyed finding cousins in Ireland and NI over the years and even found my half siblings in England. at the moment Im trying badly to research my Spanish grandparents.. so yes us in the UK do find this as interesting as in the US Id think...
Since I got my first computer 14 years ago Ive take more of an interest in my geneology, its fascinating and over the years its got so much better with all the online information... I have enjoyed finding cousins in Ireland and NI over the years and even found my half siblings in England. at the moment Im trying badly to research my Spanish grandparents.. so yes us in the UK do find this as interesting as in the US Id think...
The difference is that many Americans appear to be desperate to put labels on themselves. For example, Irish-American or Scots-American. I don't think Brits are all that interested in the labels.
I enjoyed tracing my family tree back. It was very interesting and I was able to find a whole bunch of second cousins who I didn't know existed. We even did a second cousins reunion. But it is done now. I pretty much know where I came from. Time to look to the future.
The difference is that many Americans appear to be desperate to put labels on themselves. For example, Irish-American or Scots-American. I don't think Brits are all that interested in the labels.
I enjoyed tracing my family tree back. It was very interesting and I was able to find a whole bunch of second cousins who I didn't know existed. We even did a second cousins reunion. But it is done now. I pretty much know where I came from. Time to look to the future.
I think you're reading a lot into this. I have never met an American who was "desperate to put a label on themselves."
Don't confuse "interest" with "desperation."
Maybe it's hard for some people to relate to a people who KNOW that their ancestry is NOT from the country in which they live. Or maybe they don't know much at all about their family history past a generation or two. Where were these ancestors from? What experiences and cultures shaped their values and habits - family sayings, traditions, foods, religion, likes and dislikes? Many people (not just Americans) are curious about their ancestors, but Americans often don't have the luxury of centuries of documented births, baptisms, marriages and deaths at their fingertips. Many of our histories "start" rather abruptly at a port of entry a few generations back.
I don't think it's weird or desperate to be curious about where those people came from.
That doesn't mean that British people have the same degree of interest in their ancestry as Americans, or identify with their ancestry in the same vain that Americans do - because we don't. At all. Take it from a person who lives in the United Kingdom - British people do not identify themselves by their ancestral roots. There's no point. Simply wanting to know where your ancestors came from does not equate to being obsessed with your ancestors or whatever country they come from. For example, I'd be quite interested in knowing where my mother's side of the family comes from (my father's side comes from Jamaica) - it's likely to be Ireland or Scotland. However, I have no affiliation with either place, and certainly not Jamaica, and I can live without that information, since it isn't vital or necessary, and if I ever find out, it won't be part of my identity, and I won't go around telling people that I'm Irish or Irish-British - that would be ridiculous, and you'd get a lot of funny looks. Unless you were born elsewhere, you're either British or English/Welsh/(Northern)Irish/Scottish, and nothing else.
I'd agree with that.
For instance, one of my grandfathers families come from Lithuania. I find it a curiosity and have looked up the town they are from online but that is about it. I don't consider myself to be of "Lithuanian Heritage", I don't feel like I have a special connection to the place or that something is missing from myself by not having experienced Lithuania. If I'm ever in the area for some reason I would stop by but I don't see myself making a special trip. Another grandmother is English but I don't feel English either or view myself as having any special English culture or heritage.
On the other side my family is Scottish through and through, regular common fishing and working stock. I don't view that as making me any more Scottish though, I view myself as Scottish by virtue of growing up there, going to school there, recognizing towns by their accents, watching certain TV programs as a kid, eating certain foods, knowing all the small intricacies that go into being part of a national group.
For me the past is more about small unique stories about the individuals that make up my family - of the great great aunt that dropped by grandfather off in a carriage, of the great grandmother that would never go out without gloves, the uncle who had the fasted fishing boat in the harbor. That kind of thing. None of which really has anything to do with place or ethnicity, just family stories.
Funny thing is that I am frequently asked what I am bringing my kids up to be, "heritage" wise. I tell people that I am bringing them up to be American, because that is where they were born and what their life experience is, even though they do travel to meet family and experience other cultures. It's quite interesting how many people here find this hard to understand. I often wonder if many Americans grew up with immigrant parents or grandparents who had a foot in each country. Perhaps they were scared of losing connections to "home" and so instilled a stronger sense of "heritage" than is seen in other places.
I wouldn't say the British aren't interested in genealogy - they are, but for different reasons. Many Americans are interested in where their families originally came from and enjoy the hunt for the original village in Germany or Ireland or Italy, and it helps them feel connected to the great historical waves of immigration that so defined the United States.
But if you're British your family is from Britain (with the notable exception of fairly recent immigrants). It's a small island so there's none of the "wow, my ancestors immigrated all the way from X village in X country to the United States, across vast oceans, and then migrated thousands of miles across the plains etc." In Britain if you're from, say Yorkshire, odds are pretty damn good that most of your ancestors were also from Yorkshire. Even if your family moved within Britain it was still within the same culturally defined nation so there was no great lost of significant cultural identity or languages if your ancestor moved from Yorkshire to Suffolk.
But there are people in Britain who do want to know who their great grandmothers were and like to find her name and family genealogy is also important to the aristocracy/landed gentry (though less so than in the past). In this case the aim isn't to connect to an initial immigrant or cultural group but to prove that the family was in an established position of power and prestige for so many hundreds of years, and in the old British class system such a family could expect a degree of deferential treatment. The reference to the Foyle's War episode earlier in this thread where a character states "Do you know who I am?" has all the implications of someone indirectly saying "my family has been rich and influential landed gentry for the last 500 years while yours were peasants and I have the ancestral portraits and crested silver to prove it so how dare you question me." Mind you, the landed gentry constituted a tiny percentage of the larger British population and in the modern day UK such lineage matters very little.
I wouldn't say the British aren't interested in genealogy - they are, but for different reasons. Many Americans are interested in where their families originally came from and enjoy the hunt for the original village in Germany or Ireland or Italy, and it helps them feel connected to the great historical waves of immigration that so defined the United States.
But if you're British your family is from Britain (with the notable exception of fairly recent immigrants). It's a small island so there's none of the "wow, my ancestors immigrated all the way from X village in X country to the United States, across vast oceans, and then migrated thousands of miles across the plains etc." In Britain if you're from, say Yorkshire, odds are pretty damn good that most of your ancestors were also from Yorkshire. Even if your family moved within Britain it was still within the same culturally defined nation so there was no great lost of significant cultural identity or languages if your ancestor moved from Yorkshire to Suffolk.
But there are people in Britain who do want to know who their great grandmothers were and like to find her name and family genealogy is also important to the aristocracy/landed gentry (though less so than in the past). In this case the aim isn't to connect to an initial immigrant or cultural group but to prove that the family was in an established position of power and prestige for so many hundreds of years, and in the old British class system such a family could expect a degree of deferential treatment. The reference to the Foyle's War episode earlier in this thread where a character states "Do you know who I am?" has all the implications of someone indirectly saying "my family has been rich and influential landed gentry for the last 500 years while yours were peasants and I have the ancestral portraits and crested silver to prove it so how dare you question me." Mind you, the landed gentry constituted a tiny percentage of the larger British population and in the modern day UK such lineage matters very little.
To be honest with you this isn't strictly true - there seems to be a misconception that Britons are nearly all simply Anglo Saxon descendants - most people will be suprised at just how many 'foreign' connections there are in an average Briton.
Finding a great grandmother who originally came from Ireland or a distant ancestor who was a Hugenot immigrant in the 18th century isn't the same as in the US where the typical American probably has half a dozen or even more different national origins among his/her ancestors, and that's just going back a few generations.
The overwhelming majority of native born white Britons are descended from people who resided in the British Isles for hundreds and hundreds of years. If you can prove you have a Norman or Viking ancestor that's going back a thousand years of continual residence in one island.
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome
To be honest with you this isn't strictly true - there seems to be a misconception that Britons are nearly all simply Anglo Saxon descendants - most people will be suprised at just how many 'foreign' connections there are in an average Briton.
Finding a great grandmother who originally came from Ireland or a distant ancestor who was a Hugenot immigrant in the 18th century isn't the same as in the US where the typical American probably has half a dozen or even more different national origins among his/her ancestors, and that's just going back a few generations.
The overwhelming majority of native born white Britons are descended from people who resided in the British Isles for hundreds and hundreds of years. If you can prove you have a Norman or Viking ancestor that's going back a thousand years of continual residence in one island.
Scotland has lots of native born white Scots whose families came from Italy. Lots of Italian names. They're all Scottish, sound Scottish and as far as they seem to consider themselves, the are Scottish. They're a lot less obsessed with the Italian Americans I've met over here.
I'm aware of the small number of Italians who moved to Scotland. They opened several wonderful groceries in Edinburgh.
But I wouldn't quite say "lots" of people in Scotland with Italian origins. If you google search it the estimate is between 35,000 to 100,000 people in Scotland that have some Italian heritage, out of a population of 5+ million.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyB
Scotland has lots of native born white Scots whose families came from Italy. Lots of Italian names. They're all Scottish, sound Scottish and as far as they seem to consider themselves, the are Scottish. They're a lot less obsessed with the Italian Americans I've met over here.
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