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I thought his reply was they couldn't afford the train. but hard to imagine it costing more than they have already spent buying months worth of food, cattle, hiring cowboys and cooks, etc.
Just watched a YouTube show about the historical accuracy of 1883, pointing out some of the issues mentioned here. I think I saw that a train ticket from San Antonio to Oregon was quoted as costing $40 in 1883--a lot of money for poor immigrants, but not completely out of reach.
Also, the Wikipedia page on Charles Goodnight already includes a mention of 1883, E7! He could have been showing up along the Western Trail--not too far from his ranch near Amarillo.
Here is a good map from Wikipedia of the major cattle trails. You can see that our friends are crossing over from Ft. Worth and the Chisholm Trail, taking a route close to the Western Trail. I think they should just get on the train at Ogallalla...
Being responsible and philosophical are two different traits—
I think most parents expect their children to be responsible and contribute to the work needed to survive but being philosophical, especially outside the norm, isn’t something parents encourage because 1–it takes up time, 2-it encourages questioning of norms most people live by, 3-it is different and most parents want their children to fit in and be accepted within their environment
Elsa is different than anyone on the train…even her parents—she is probably more like Sam Elliott if you got right down to it—
Compare Elsa and her cousin who died outside FTW when Elsa’s aunt antagonized that bully and they started shooting up the camp
Do you think there is any way her cousin’s assessment of the world they are facing would be the same as Elsa’s even though they grew up at same time in similar circumstances (with much of the same genetic makeup even) and that girl had even suffered more by losing her father???
Elsa is a rare soul—from what I have read about those times women were expected to be silent and subservient—like her aunt expected Elsa to be.
Even Margaret was not that happy with the freedom her father was giving Elsa even if she is coming to admire the woman Elsa is transforming into.
And women who were strong and showed their strength were not often appreciated by society.
Kissing Sam like Elsa did would have caused her to be shunned by most whites…
Even “liking/respecting” Indians could cause trouble—
Goodnight’s actions seem very unlike his historical record as well—
He was leading the Rangers who captured Cynthia Ann Parker who had become wife of a Comanche chief Peta Nocona. Read what his men did to the Comanche women at that event. https://quanahparkerday.com/history/...goodnight.html
ADDED:
I read more on that site and Goodnight and Quannah Parker become friends later in life—
So maybe Goodnight was not as rabid against the Indians as some…Parker was a pretty respected Comanche leader after he went to the reservation…
They were in Oklahoma, which was Indian Territory.
Also...there was lots of intermarrying between whites and Native Americans. My GGGGrandmother was married to a Scotsman. He was her second husband. He was also my GGGGrandfather.
I suspect that the more remote the tribe, the less intermarrying. But not all native Americans were living on the plains. Lots of tribes had farms, dressed like white folk, went to church, etc., and married white people.
Just watched a YouTube show about the historical accuracy of 1883, pointing out some of the issues mentioned here. I think I saw that a train ticket from San Antonio to Oregon was quoted as costing $40 in 1883--a lot of money for poor immigrants, but not completely out of reach.
Also, the Wikipedia page on Charles Goodnight already includes a mention of 1883, E7! He could have been showing up along the Western Trail--not too far from his ranch near Amarillo.
Here is a good map from Wikipedia of the major cattle trails. You can see that our friends are crossing over from Ft. Worth and the Chisholm Trail, taking a route close to the Western Trail. I think they should just get on the train at Ogallalla...
I think they are in OK as of last episode since the one previous they were at doans crossing. Doans crossing became more known for doans store once the ferrys were in. no sure when the first bridge was in but the RRs had at least 3. the map is 1876 - at that point in time, the RRs were building dozens miles a day across the USA. In 7 years, that map would be full. I have a map of 1885 chicago-NY-Boston etc. There were more rail miles THEN, than today!
Just watched a YouTube show about the historical accuracy of 1883, pointing out some of the issues mentioned here. I think I saw that a train ticket from San Antonio to Oregon was quoted as costing $40 in 1883--a lot of money for poor immigrants, but not completely out of reach.
Also, the Wikipedia page on Charles Goodnight already includes a mention of 1883, E7! He could have been showing up along the Western Trail--not too far from his ranch near Amarillo.
Here is a good map from Wikipedia of the major cattle trails. You can see that our friends are crossing over from Ft. Worth and the Chisholm Trail, taking a route close to the Western Trail. I think they should just get on the train at Ogallalla...
fyi - the 'national cattle trail' to canada was IIRC the one used to take cattle to either Nolan or Logan Sackette and the Metis in one of Louis L'Amours sacket novels...
I will agree with you to a point, but even teachers looked older then their years....I'm certain the way they dressed added to it, and people didn't dye their hair, nor have the make up advantages including creams and oils to soften lines....
Then there were some women who did not have wrinkles and lines in their faces....but just looked much older, not to mention they were certainly so much tougher and stronger emotionally and physically.
They were surely a different breed of people....
and there is no need for the sarcastic eye roll, just having a conversation, for goodness sakes.
I will agree with you to a point, but even teachers looked older then their years....I'm certain the way they dressed added to it, and people didn't dye their hair, nor have the make up advantages including creams and oils to soften lines....
Then there were some women who did not have wrinkles and lines in their faces....but just looked much older, not to mention they were certainly so much tougher and stronger emotionally and physically.
They were surely a different breed of people....
and there is no need for the sarcastic eye roll, just having a conversation, for goodness sakes.
Major misunderstanding. I wasn't being sarcastic, just sharing a piece of folksy wisdom: that it's the road you've traveled more than the actual years that will show in your face. I guess I'll stop using the .
They were in Oklahoma, which was Indian Territory.
Also...there was lots of intermarrying between whites and Native Americans. My GGGGrandmother was married to a Scotsman. He was her second husband. He was also my GGGGrandfather.
I suspect that the more remote the tribe, the less intermarrying. But not all native Americans were living on the plains. Lots of tribes had farms, dressed like white folk, went to church, etc., and married white people.
I know that happened—happened to the Cherokees in particular before they were put on the Trail of Tears
Indians were pushed to OK because it was considered undesireable—until it wasn’t—
Texans hated Comanches—for the most part, the worst enemy each of them had
They weren’t too far from Doan’s Store which is still in TX panhandle—check the map posted—
A great piece of information by the way
They called it Indian country because there was no civilization of Anglos —no towns (a few big ranches and isolated smaller ones) and no law except your six-shooter
Texas Rangers and the US Army likely had a presence but few and far between
You are extrapolating multiple Indigenous populations into one—which is what you accused me of.
Through my mother I have Cherokee, Chickasaw, and Choctaw ancestry
My dad’s stepmother was half Native American—married in early 1900s in TX—so all his half siblings were 1/4 blood…
I know there was intermarriage—
Major misunderstanding. I wasn't being sarcastic, just sharing a piece of folksy wisdom: that it's the road you've traveled more than the actual years that will show in your face. I guess I'll stop using the .
by all means, please do stop using the LOL, seriously sorry I misunderstood, thank you for taking the time to explain...
This is to Everyone......I do so love how all the folks in this thread are offering a whole lot of interesting historical facts....honestly I do....but this is a TV show, it's never going to be hisorically perfect....or realistic...so I'm asking everyone to please keep that in mind while watching....
for me, it is entertaining and I love the show...almost as much as Yellowstone....I love Elsa's poetic romantisism descriptions. When watching the program, I'm not looking for flaws, or historical facts...I'm looking to be taken away for a time, from the reality of my world, as I stated before, I'm not a realist but more so, a philisophical romantic...and I don't care who plays the actors parts as long as their good actors which Sheriden has succeded to excel on both accounts for me.
someone mentioned about taking the train, well, if they'd have taken the train, the show wouldn't be near as exciting would it?
This show for me, translates the hardships of our pioneer ancesters who braved elements, loosing everything, even lives to start a new life and live it in their way. Love the way the two Indians became friends with the pioneers, which you don't see very often, not all people are bad people.
Clark....
As far as our conversations go, I'm 73 years old now...and when ever we look at old pictures with our grand parents and great grand parents, those women who were in their 40's look much older than their time, on all accounts, perhaps hair style, clothing, no make up, no hair dyes, added to the equasion, but all in all, when we as a family look at those pictures we are all surprised at how much older our aunts, and grand parents looked....and yes, the roads they traveled were perhaps much more difficult....tougher, more physical work, which I believe adds to the whole process, but wondering if anyone else notices that?
One thing for certain, obesity surely was not as rampid as it is now adays....perhaps due to the fact that they worked physically hard...to survive...
I never ever knew my foster mother with anything other than grey hair and I knew her since I was 5 years old?
Does that make sense?
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