Better skyline Houston or Dallas? (River Oaks, Center: airplane, articles, 2013)

[First24]

I found this post on the City vs City forum. The author gives some interesting insights and perspectives on mainly Houston but also has seemingly unbiased knowledge of other cities as well.

Here's a portion of what they wrote:

Toronto's been using vertical towers for density creation for a while now. This is the road Houston's taken too as well as Miami and also Washington (in the district and suburbs like Rosslyn, Ballston, Silver Spring, Bethesda, Pentagon City, Tyson's Corner, Crystal City, such). The weird thing about this design is that when translated for pedestrian activity, the cities always feel less intense than their size suggests (Toronto, Washington, Miami, and Houston). Dallas and Atlanta are more like eastern and western cities. Atlanta when it fills up would be more like a Boston or Philadelphia. While Dallas or Denver, when they fill up will be more like San Diego, Seattle, and such.

[RompingWillyBilly]

Originally Posted by First24

I found this post on the City vs City forum. The author gives some interesting insights and perspectives on mainly Houston but also has seemingly unbiased knowledge of other cities as well.

Here's a portion of what they wrote:

I can remember reading many years back that Houston is an anomaly because the huge energy companies based in the city when they would expand could fill easily up forty to fifty story office buildings. In contrast, in Dallas, it has always been and is still all about the retail. There hasn't been retail of any significance in downtown Dallas for almost forty years. But that is now changing as a concentration of retail seems to be developing in and around McKinney Avenue in Uptown Dallas.

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by RompingWillyBilly

But isn't there about 27 million square feet of office space, ten thousand hotel rooms, and about eight thousand homes in downtown Dallas? I can remember reading that there are supposed to be 40,000 people living in the immediate vicinity of downtown Dallas while there are reportedly 50,000 people living within a two mile diameter of downtown Houston.

Downtown Dallas is almost maxed out. It has developed to the point that there is a big problem with parking. And isn't there a Metro bus terminal located within downtown Houston? Is that thing still there? Just seems like a funny place to have a large terminal for metro buses. In other words, I agree with you that Houston's "Uptown" growth has happened within the loop of the old downtown area.

There may be 27 million sq ft of office space in downtown Dallas, but there is over 46 million sq ft of office space in downtown Houston. Dallas does have the advantage with residential but only because their vacancy rate was so high they had to repurpose many office buildings. Ten thousand hotel rooms? Can't find any info verifying that statement. There are over 2,300 hotel rooms (that have been announced.. Projects like the new 40+ story Ritz aren't included yet) currently in development/under construction in downtown Houston. We are on pace to double the amount of residences downtown (another 2,500 units) in a matter of 5 or so years. We just announced the new downtown retail incentives program to jump start a new retail corridor in downtown.. And there are 75,000 people living within 2 miles of downtown. What's wrong with a bus station in downtown? Unfortunately our light rail system won't be built out for another decade or so, so the people that live along the routes not served by rail need a terminal downtown for bus service.

Originally Posted by RompingWillyBilly

I can remember reading many years back that Houston is an anomaly because the huge energy companies based in the city when they would expand could fill easily up forty to fifty story office buildings. In contrast, in Dallas, it has always been and is still all about the retail. There hasn't been retail of any significance in downtown Dallas for almost forty years. But that is now changing as a concentration of retail seems to be developing in and around McKinney Avenue in Uptown Dallas.

I wasn't aware uptown Dallas was in downtown...?

[First24]

I can understand why someone living in Houston wouldn't be able to grasp the concept of a combined uptown/downtown since there is such a huge gap between the two.

For people who know Dallas, it's easy to comprehend.

[dollaztx]

Originally Posted by first24

i can understand why someone living in houston wouldn't be able to grasp the concept of a combined uptown/downtown since there is such a huge gap between the two.

For people who know dallas, it's easy to comprehend.

+1

[R1070]

Originally Posted by TexasTallest

There may be 27 million sq ft of office space in downtown Dallas, but there is over 46 million sq ft of office space in downtown Houston. Dallas does have the advantage with residential but only because their vacancy rate was so high they had to repurpose many office buildings. Ten thousand hotel rooms? Can't find any info verifying that statement. There are over 2,300 hotel rooms (that have been announced.. Projects like the new 40+ story Ritz aren't included yet) currently in development/under construction in downtown Houston. We are on pace to double the amount of residences downtown (another 2,500 units) in a matter of 5 or so years. We just announced the new downtown retail incentives program to jump start a new retail corridor in downtown.. And there are 75,000 people living within 2 miles of downtown. What's wrong with a bus station in downtown? Unfortunately our light rail system won't be built out for another decade or so, so the people that live along the routes not served by rail need a terminal downtown for bus service.



I wasn't aware uptown Dallas was in downtown...?

I don't think anyone HAD to repurpose anything. There is a demand for downtown housing and it is being met. What better way to do it than repurpose older office space that doesn't quite meet the standards of today's modern office tenant? I think it's a great idea and this is found in many older and larger cities. I certainly don't know why anyone would think of it as a negative or twist it to make it look like Dallas has to do it out of desperation.

As for the downtown/uptown combination. There are areas of "Uptown" that are technically considered Downtown. As most of the central neighborhoods blend into one another there does tend to be some confusion at times. Other areas that get confused are where Knox-Henderson begins and Uptown ends and whether or not Turtle Creek is Oak Lawn or Uptown (It's technically Oak Lawn since Uptown's Western border is the Katy Trail).

[TexasTallest]

Meh, they are still two separate districts divided by a highway... That's like saying downtown Houston and midtown, or the east end are one and the same.

[R1070]

Originally Posted by First24

I can understand why someone living in Houston wouldn't be able to grasp the concept of a combined uptown/downtown since there is such a huge gap between the two.

For people who know Dallas, it's easy to comprehend.

I really want to see the Harwood area take off. That block between the Victory Park area and the areas to the North really creates a gap that seems to cut off the connectivity to Victory Park.

[curtbr72]

Originally Posted by TexasTallest

Meh, they are still two separate districts divided by a highway... That's like saying downtown Houston and midtown, or the east end are one and the same.

You mean divided by a park.

[dollaztx]

Originally Posted by R1070

I really want to see the Harwood area take off. That block between the Victory Park area and the areas to the North really creates a gap that seems to cut off the connectivity to Victory Park.

Well Frost Bank just "broke ground" this week so that will help.

Construction for Harwood’s Uptown Dallas office tower gets a chilly start

The groundbreaking ceremony was Thursday for the new Frost Tower. (Steve Brown)

They called it a groundbreaking.
But the hole dug for the new Uptown office tower is already big enough to hide a house.
Developer Harwood International held a chilly ceremony Thursday afternoon to kick off its 22-story Frost Tower on Wolf Street. With temps at the outside event in the 40s, the name of the building is fitting.
Even with the nippy weather, Harwood got a big turnout for the party, which after some speeches moved to the nearby Marie Gabrielle Restaurant.
The new office high-rise is already more than 40 percent.
Construction for Harwood’s Uptown Dallas office tower gets a chilly start | Dallas Morning News