Deciding between Marin county and Alameda county (Oakland, Orange: middle-class, transplants)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Is that because I'm presenting you with facts. You're suggesting the average family has horrible credit and will only purchase homes with an LTV of 90%.

Never said anything about horrible credit-do you hear voices?

It is kind of telling though that you continually suggest it, perhaps it's reflective of your own personal credit situation.

LOL...you can't offend me-I feel sorry for you to be honest. I mean your a PhD/Financial Advisor and now we find out you also a Realtor...And yet you seem to find lots of time to troll the SF Forum even tho your comments make us wonder if you've even ever been to the Bay Area-much less have enough knowledge to comment on the area at all.

Fear mongering? I posted a crime report that shows Fairview has weekly reported assaults, all over the area. I'm not saying Fairview is a slum, but it's not an excellent neighborhood like you claim. Excellent neighborhoods don't have high violent crime rates.

Its excellent enough for the average family income there to top $90,000-which means you have a whole bunch of households that could live in a host of other places(the sterile suburban kind you like) yet they CHOOSE to live in Fairview Park. Explaning to you why that is isnt really a high priority of mine-its a big city thing, you wouldnt understand.

Next.

As for choosing between Fairview and Costa Mesa, there are neighborhoods in Costa Mesa that make Fairview look like a third world country.

If you are talking about gaudy faux spanish style mini-mansions with gaudy water-wasting lawns where the gaudy 3-car garage is the most prominent feature of the gaudy front exterior then I suppose your right.

Im sure that eating in Costa Mesa would feel like slumming it for an Oakland foodie too. Ick. I could throw up just thinking about it.

It's all relative to the community. One thing I do know is that Costa Mesa as a whole has less murders, less rape, and less violent assault than Oakland.

Costa Mesa also has less good food, less art, less sophistication and less intellectuals.

Oh but they do have that big mall that most Costa Mesans can't afford to shop at. LOL

Also Costa Mesa doesn't have a 52% dropout rate like Oakland.

Too bad that doesnt translate into more educated adults.

Adults with a Bachelor's Degree, 2008
Oakland 37.3%
Costa Mesa 33.4%

Adults with an Advanced Degree, 2008
Oakland 16.0%
Costa Mesa 9.6%

Oakland's been whalloping a whole bunch of drab OC burbs lately hasnt it? LOL

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Never said anything about horrible credit-do you hear voices?

You suggested that someone would put down 10% at a 7% mortgage rate, which would suggest the family has sub prime credit. I honestly think this may be reflective of your own credit situation since it's so specific and detailed.

LOL...you can't offend me-I feel sorry for you to be honest. I mean your a PhD/Financial Advisor and now we find out you also a Realtor...And yet you seem to find lots of time to troll the SF Forum even tho your comments make us wonder if you've even ever been to the Bay Area-much less have enough knowledge to comment on the area at all.

I'm a broker, not a realtor.

Its excellent enough for the average family income there to top $90,000-which means you have a whole bunch of households that could live in a host of other places(the sterile suburban kind you like) yet they CHOOSE to live in Fairview Park. Explaning to you why that is isnt really a high priority of mine-its a big city thing, you wouldnt understand.

Average family income means nothing when it comes to factors that make a neighborhood attractive to families. If you cram 5 illegals making 20k a year into a 1 bedroom apartment, you get a "household income" of $100,000. The simple fact is the "average Oakland resident" makes $35,000. Fact.

If you are talking about gaudy faux spanish style mini-mansions with gaudy water-wasting lawns where the gaudy 3-car garage is the most prominent feature of the gaudy front exterior then I suppose your right.

Yeah it sucks having a huge yard, 5 bedrooms, and gated security. I'm sure most families would prefer shoot outs on the streets, drug dealers on the corners, and Section 8 housing as neighbors.

Im sure that eating in Costa Mesa would feel like slumming it for an Oakland foodie too. Ick. I could throw up just thinking about it.
Costa Mesa also has less good food, less art, less sophistication and less intellectuals.

False, Costa Mesa has top rated restaurants and varied local cuisine. It just doesn't have the gun shots, and murders to go along with it, unlike Oakland.

Oh but they do have that big mall that most Costa Mesans can't afford to shop at. LOL

You mean South Coast Plaza, the single most profitable mall in the entire country?
south-coast-plaza | details (http://www.lacityguide.net/details/south-coast-plaza.html - broken link)

See, that's how you know that what you type can't be trusted. You don't even have the decency to provide truthful information about a shopping mall.

Adults with a Bachelor's Degree, 2008
Oakland 37.3%
Costa Mesa 33.4%

Adults with an Advanced Degree, 2008
Oakland 16.0%
Costa Mesa 9.6%

You obviously don't know how to interrupt statistical data. If Oakland kids are dropping out at a rate of 52%, then it follows that the degree holders in the City of Oakland aren't from the city itself, but from outside of Oakland.

How does that help someone who is looking at Oakland as a potential place to raise their family?

[18Montclair]

Here is a racial breakdown of those Oakland neighborhoods:

Average Income Data from Onboard LLC
Average Home Sale Price Data from trulia.com
Racial breakdown data from city-data.com

Sheperd Canyon
Average Household Income: $148,168
Average Home Sale Price(Mar-May 2010): $392,245


Sheffield Village
Average Household Income: $135,575
Average Home Sale Price(Mar-May 2010): $487,517


Sequoyah
Average Household Income:$131,296
Average Home Sale Price(Mar-May 2010):$449,343


Caballo Hills
Average Household Income: $121,583
Average Home Sale Price(Mar-May 2010): $376,076


Chabot Park
Average Household Income: $119,790
Average Home Sale Price(Mar-May 2010): $461,722


Redwood Heights
Average Household Income: $111,814
Average Home Sale Price(Mar-May 2010): $311,650


Oak Knoll/ Golf Links
Average Household Income: $95,110
Average Home Sale Price(Mar-May 2010): $295,648


Fairview Park
Average Household Income: $92,833
Average Home Sale Price(Mar-May 2010): $362,500

[batransplant]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

If you are talking about gaudy faux spanish style mini-mansions with gaudy water-wasting lawns where the gaudy 3-car garage is the most prominent feature of the gaudy front exterior then I suppose your right.

Im sure that eating in Costa Mesa would feel like slumming it for an Oakland foodie too. Ick. I could throw up just thinking about it.


Costa Mesa also has less good food, less art, less sophistication and less intellectuals.

Oh but they do have that big mall that most Costa Mesans can't afford to shop at. LOL


Too bad that doesnt translate into more educated adults.

Adults with a Bachelor's Degree, 2008
Oakland 37.3%
Costa Mesa 33.4%

Adults with an Advanced Degree, 2008
Oakland 16.0%
Costa Mesa 9.6%

Oakland's been whalloping a whole bunch of drab OC burbs lately hasnt it? LOL

I lived in OC (Newport Beach and Irvine) for 5 years, both cities which border Costa Mesa, and there are some very beautiful, charming established neighborhoods in CM. There are plenty of very well educated yuppies earning huge salaries in CM who have been priced out of Newport Beach (median home price has skyrocketed to over 2MM the past 10-15 years and only for the mega rich vs. the kinda rich) and don't care for the cookie cutter environment of Irvine, will choose Costa Mesa for their home. The same goes for grad students attending UCI. The public schools in all 3 areas are top rated as well.

Regarding cuisine, there are some excellent restaurants in Costa Mesa. You will get incredible mexican food, that does not exist in Oakland (trust me I know) along with a variety of gourmet and casual cuisine. While I haven't lived near Costa Mesa for 15 years, I can still remember my go to places for indian, homemade pasta and sauce before it was trendy, mexican, organic, and seafood. For OC, I would say Costa Mesa and Laguna Beach have the best restaurants, but CM has more chains then Oakland.

While there are some great restaurants in Oakland, they are all very similar, and unless you are in the mood for cal cuisine or cal inspired ethnic food (like Dona Tomas or Pizzaiolo), which is the core cuisine in the main foodie areas like Rockridge, Temescal, Piedmont Av. and Uptown, it is hard to find an excellent "go to" restaurant in every category. After being here a few years and trying different places every weekend, I still don't have go to places for much of anything other than when I feel like trying a new cal cuisine restaurant.

There is plenty of art in this region as well...I studied art at UCI so very familiar... nowhere near the same level of LA or NYC, which are US art capitals, but still OK for a regional suburban area. I agree there are fewer intellectuals in Costa Mesa, because the area doesn't really have many opportunities for them outside of the university system due to a smaller focus on government and non profit jobs, but does attract many, many, smart, entrepreneurial people and those with extensive business, tech/engineering, and healthcare backgrounds. UCI does have its share of intellectuals who are recruited from all over the world to teach and study there. Many settle in the region because it is a lovely place to live and work.

Less sophistication...this is a tough call...its a tie. I just don't think "sophisticated" when I think of Oakland or Costa Mesa since both areas are so laid back and casual, but in different ways. Of course both areas attract a few sophisticated individuals, but as cities, they are not. I think people mistake Oakland's pride for sophistication because it can sort of fake "talking the talk" due to tooting its own horn in local media, and proximity to SF, but it definitely cannot "walk the walk" on it's own. CM is too suburban and conventional to appear sophisticated. When I think of sophistication, I think of NYC, London, even LA or SF, but not Oakland or CM. There is way too much inexcusable bad taste, simplicity, sloppiness, anti-elitism, provincialism, and lack of concern for high culture in one or both areas.

CM attracts people who want to live the archetypical upscale, California coastal/suburban lifestyle. Being surrounded by gorgeous, lush, nicely manicured landscape, consistently ideal weather, clean, safe, charming, established, well-maintained neighborhoods whose residents value pride of ownership, good public schools, a pro-business environment, friendly, attractive, health-conscious, active, pleasure-seeking people, multitudes of resort-style, outdoor recreational activities within 5 min walk or drive (surfing, swimming, golf, tennis, hiking, rowing, sailing, biking etc) with clean, well maintained facilities, to be enjoyed year round, and proximity to ultra-luxurious services and amenities that rival major cities, without paying the ridiculously steep price tag of Newport Beach housing.

People who choose to settle in Oakland seek a more urban-inclusive, understated, quasi-alternative, casual/DIY lifestyle, prefer rustic, natural, grown-in landscape, the foodie/farmers market culture, the dominant political/activist environment, seasonal weather, older, historic, eclectic neighborhoods with varying levels of home maintenance, close access to forested state parks for hiking and camping, intellectual, idealistic people who are not concerned with conventional standards of beauty or the status quo, viable public transportation options, locally-owned, "community-tailored" services and amenities, all for a better value vs. living in San Francisco's Noe Valley, Haight, or Mission districts.

2 totally different and opposite lifestyles. Apples and Oranges...both offering distinctive living depending on your tastes, unless one is forced to conform to either area due to job relocation, and ends up here complaining about it. I know I've been guilty as charged.

To get back to the OP, if money is no object, I would pick Marin hands down, over Oakland/Alameda County to raise a family. It is gorgeous with massive amounts of parks, bike paths, trails, natural beauty, cleanliness, safety, great schools, nice weather, charming towns, lots of money, socially liberal, and super close to SF.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Thanks for the informative post batransplant.

18Montclair may come back to attack you for providing facts though, because that's what she usually does when she has none to back herself up.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Thanks for the informative post batransplant.

18Montclair may come back to attack you for providing facts though, because that's what she usually does when she has none to back herself up.

That will be enough out of you.

Originally Posted by Mr Fantastic

For instance, I routinely serve less food at the restaurant I work at to Hispanics. They are none the wiser.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/13447406-post62.html

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by batransplant

I

2 totally different and opposite lifestyles. Apples and Oranges

Yes, yes I know and this is what it all boils down to.

My comments were specifically tailored for Mr Fanatic so that he understands that his version of Utopia is not shared by all. And that while he may find pleasure in attacking places for reasons that are beyond his comprehension, the same can be done for places he finds to be desirable.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Not liking violent crime is actually universal. That's not apples and oranges, that's apples to apples.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Not liking violent crime is actually universal. That's not apples and oranges, that's apples to apples.

Well, we all know that you'd serve Hispanics smaller portions of apples and oranges than other people.

Originally Posted by Mr Fantastic

For instance, I routinely serve less food at the restaurant I work at to Hispanics. They are none the wiser.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/13447406-post62.html

[majoun]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

That will be enough out of you.



https://www.city-data.com/forum/13447406-post62.html

And don't forget this:

https://www.city-data.com/forum/los-a...angeles-7.html

Perhaps Mr. Fantastic is trying to restart the Klan in OC....