Why are property taxes so high in Rochester? (Monroe, Ontario: low income, how much)
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Wow that's sad. What is the unemployment percentage there?
I don't believe it is high, but that could be for those that are elderly, disabled, in a lower income bracket, etc. Medicaid, if I'm not mistaken, is a big issue in terms of costs for counties.
People all over tell people to leave if they're miserable or want a change. If one isn't happy, what's the point in staying where you're miserable? Life's too short to be miserable.
I did move south and I moved back north 2 1/2 years later. A lot of people don't stay in the South. Lots of people don't stay and relocate elsewhere or move back north. Some move around because of jobs. Some because they feel the grass will be greener (that was me) or the cheap taxes (I had a little bit of that).
I had ZERO intentions on ever moving back to NY when I left. I was incredibly home sick within 3 months and it never got better. It just kept getting worse. It got so bad that I was on the verge of having a breakdown. Not good. So we moved back to NY. We didn't move to where we were originally from, but we LOVE being back in NY!
Yes, I had cheap taxes in SC, but wow what an eye opener! You get what you pay for.....paved roads (there were numerous dirt roads and many paved roads were crumbling), good schools (wouldn't send my dog to the schools there), etc.
There's something to be said about 4 actual seasons and water. Didn't have either one in SC. I used to hate snow and I am embracing it this winter. The climate up here has changed a lot! There used to be snowbanks taller than me at the end of my parents' driveway and now they're lucky if they get to be 2 feet high. Last year, the snow never came. Even this winter we haven't had squat for snow. Today it's 50 something degrees out!
Where do you get the money to move from rochester to SC and then back 2 and a half years later. A average move costs at least $5000, not to mention finding a new job when you get there.
Where do you get the money to move from rochester to SC and then back 2 and a half years later. A average move costs at least $5000, not to mention finding a new job when you get there.
I know somebody that had a job lined up, sold their house, moved to SC, bought a new house, hated it, quit their job, then moved back to Rochester into an apartment before they even had sold their home in SC and ended up going back to work for their previous employer in Rochester because they disliked living in SC so much. It's not as uncommon for people to move back as those who have this utopia view of moving away think it is.
Interesting thread. I stumbled onto this while just doing a little research/reading about property taxes. I currently live in Knoxville, TN, and am from here. My husband is from Rochester (Webster). First, let me say that I think ROC is a really cool place. Amazing food and Wegmans, lol. You just call up a generic, Acme Pizza place and you get delivered a better pizza than you can ever find here (that would deliver, at least). I've never had a better sub in my life than the Godfather at Wegmans, either, and that grocery store blew me away the first time I went. It's like OHare airport. Lots of neat little areas and suburbs, too. I could never live in Roc due to the winters, but otherwise I think it's a nice place to live.
However, I was shocked beyond belief when I learned of the property taxes (among others) there. His parents have, honestly, a crappy run-down house worth maybe $150k and they pay $5200 a year in taxes. That is just unbelievable to me. $100 a week? I've spent lots of time there and I hardly notice a difference in services, etc. For $100 a week the streets should be paved with gold. I couldn't even imagine the tax bill on a 3-400k house. His brother & spouse are buying a house (so are we) and, for example, the house we want for $189,900 has a yearly tax bill of $842. They have about the same income as us yet can only afford about a 120k house just because of the property tax. We will be paying about the same mortgage for a home worth 70k more. (Home prices are cheaper here, also. You get more for your money) For the middle class, this is HUGE.
I've spent a good amount of time in Rochester and I honestly don't see what the citizens get out of paying such high property taxes. They are good with plowing the snow, but like one poster said...that's not nearly enough. If I'm paying $14 a day just to own a (crappy) house I'd like to see gold-paved streets. Half of his family wants to move down here when they actually add up how much money they'd save. That, plus isn't there a school tax, also? Add in the state income tax and I don't see how any middle class person doesn't feel like they're being ripped off.
By the way, the roads are actually in better than average shape here! Not perfect, but definitely above average. I went to a good public high school with a 97% graduation rate. Sure, there are junker cars sometimes, but I'll take that and not pay a penny for inspection any day. Our wheel tax is annoying here, though. It's about $68 per year per car to register. Sales tax is high here (9.25% I think and it does apply to everything including food and clothes), but you only notice it when you buy very expensive things like cars, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovebrentwood
Funny, I said a few days ago nobody up North ever says "Leave if you don't like it" because it's so rude. But it's common in the South. I guess I was wrong.
I say this with all due respect and not toward any one poster on this thread, but the reason people say this exact phrase in the South is because many people from the North move down here and do nothing but complain and say, verbatum, "Up north we do this better, up north we do that better. Or, "This is how we do it up north." It's very annoying and frankly insulting. I actually got a bad grade in one college class (Univ of Tenn) because we had this professor who always said that and I always would call him on it. I actually asked him once in front of the whole class, "Why are you here, then?"
I would never, EVER move somewhere and infer to the natives that they were doing something wrong, especially as a guest. I would want to try to adapt and learn a thing or two! We lived in Los Angeles for two years and I thought that was the most ridiculous place on earth (don't get me started, lol) yet I kept my mouth shut and ended up moving back, lol.
We would welcome anyone down here, and trust me, "southern hospitality" is real and alive and well. But just please don't say any of those phrases. Live by that rule down here and you'll make lots of friends, and fast.
Interesting thread. I stumbled onto this while just doing a little research/reading about property taxes. I currently live in Knoxville, TN, and am from here. My husband is from Rochester (Webster). First, let me say that I think ROC is a really cool place. Amazing food and Wegmans, lol. You just call up a generic, Acme Pizza place and you get delivered a better pizza than you can ever find here (that would deliver, at least). I've never had a better sub in my life than the Godfather at Wegmans, either, and that grocery store blew me away the first time I went. It's like OHare airport. Lots of neat little areas and suburbs, too. I could never live in Roc due to the winters, but otherwise I think it's a nice place to live.
However, I was shocked beyond belief when I learned of the property taxes (among others) there. His parents have, honestly, a crappy run-down house worth maybe $150k and they pay $5200 a year in taxes. That is just unbelievable to me. $100 a week? I've spent lots of time there and I hardly notice a difference in services, etc. For $100 a week the streets should be paved with gold. I couldn't even imagine the tax bill on a 3-400k house. His brother & spouse are buying a house (so are we) and, for example, the house we want for $189,900 has a yearly tax bill of $842. They have about the same income as us yet can only afford about a 120k house just because of the property tax. We will be paying about the same mortgage for a home worth 70k more. (Home prices are cheaper here, also. You get more for your money) For the middle class, this is HUGE.
I've spent a good amount of time in Rochester and I honestly don't see what the citizens get out of paying such high property taxes. They are good with plowing the snow, but like one poster said...that's not nearly enough. If I'm paying $14 a day just to own a (crappy) house I'd like to see gold-paved streets. Half of his family wants to move down here when they actually add up how much money they'd save. That, plus isn't there a school tax, also? Add in the state income tax and I don't see how any middle class person doesn't feel like they're being ripped off.
By the way, the roads are actually in better than average shape here! Not perfect, but definitely above average. I went to a good public high school with a 97% graduation rate. Sure, there are junker cars sometimes, but I'll take that and not pay a penny for inspection any day. Our wheel tax is annoying here, though. It's about $68 per year per car to register. Sales tax is high here (9.25% I think and it does apply to everything including food and clothes), but you only notice it when you buy very expensive things like cars, etc.
I say this with all due respect and not toward any one poster on this thread, but the reason people say this exact phrase in the South is because many people from the North move down here and do nothing but complain and say, verbatum, "Up north we do this better, up north we do that better. Or, "This is how we do it up north." It's very annoying and frankly insulting. I actually got a bad grade in one college class (Univ of Tenn) because we had this professor who always said that and I always would call him on it. I actually asked him once in front of the whole class, "Why are you here, then?"
I would never, EVER move somewhere and infer to the natives that they were doing something wrong, especially as a guest. I would want to try to adapt and learn a thing or two! We lived in Los Angeles for two years and I thought that was the most ridiculous place on earth (don't get me started, lol) yet I kept my mouth shut and ended up moving back, lol.
We would welcome anyone down here, and trust me, "southern hospitality" is real and alive and well. But just please don't say any of those phrases. Live by that rule down here and you'll make lots of friends, and fast.
School taxes make up the biggest portion of property taxes and a lot of that has to do with educational requirements for teachers, as well as time in. Some may question the educational requirements in comparison, but this will also depend on what schools you are comparing.
Also, it may depend on where you live, as a village may add another layer of taxes due to village services. So, you actually get a multiplicity of services, which may partially account for the property taxes.
There are also services that TN wouldn't see such a snow plowing and repair afterwards in terms of infrastructure.
As for the lower property taxes in TN, you can get hit with things like a higher sales tax or there may be a tangible personal property tax. HOA's may be more prevalent, which usually has what is essentially a privatized form of taxes by way of fees. It won't be tit for tat, but the taxes/fees may come in other ways. https://www.retirementliving.com/tax...ming#TENNESSEE
Not sure about home prices, as this depends on where you compare within an area. As you can see, the median home price in all of the major TN metro areas is actually higher than the median home prices in the Rochester area: Metropolitan Median Area Prices and Affordability | realtor.org
School taxes make up the biggest portion of property taxes and a lot of that has to do with educational requirements for teachers, as well as time in. Some may question the educational requirements in comparison, but this will also depend on what schools you are comparing.
Also, it may depend on where you live, as a village may add another layer of taxes due to village services. So, you actually get a multiplicity of services, which may partially account for the property taxes.
There are also services that TN wouldn't see such a snow plowing and repair afterwards in terms of infrastructure.
As for the lower property taxes in TN, you can get hit with things like a higher sales tax or there may be a tangible personal property tax. HOA's may be more prevalent, which usually has what is essentially a privatized form of taxes by way of fees. It won't be tit for tat, but the taxes/fees may come in other ways. https://www.retirementliving.com/tax...ming#TENNESSEE
Not sure about home prices, as this depends on where you compare within an area. As you can see, the median home price in all of the major TN metro areas is actually higher than the median home prices in the Rochester area: Metropolitan Median Area Prices and Affordability | realtor.org
Don't get me wrong, you guys do benefit from it. For example, an in law is a teacher up there, and I was shocked when she described all the benefits she gets, like a teacher's union, etc. I'm sure she is paid significantly more, too. There is nothing like that here, though I doubt a teacher would consider QOL here low. I know several and they like their jobs. My mom just retired from being a teacher. That said, unions are great.
HOA fees are negligible here, and you can easily avoid them. We are currently shopping for a home and more homes we are interested in than not have no HOA.
Sales tax is high, but you don't really notice it until you're starting to spend a lot. We bought a $1600 TV last year and paid about $155 in tax...ouch. Sales tax is 9.75%.
I'm not aware of personal property fees--we have a 19' boat and it costs $25/year to register. No other taxes.
Of course we don't plow the roads here like you do, but for a city that only sees snow once or twice a year (at best) it is fairly impressive the resources we do have. There's a huge salt mill and a fleet of trucks.
I guess what I'm saying is that I hate taxes, lol. I really, really like Rochester but I could never swallow the taxes there, and would feel pretty shafted as a middle class citizen. $5200 a year on a 150k house is unconscionable. The fact that my brother in law has to settle for a $120k house for the same payment as a $190k house we are in the market for here, just wow. That's a major factor in QOL, and I don't see any real, life-changing benefits you get as a return on said high taxes. (Real estate prices here are more or less roughly the same, maybe slightly less.)
AJT, adding onto the great info ckhthankgod has posted, 67% of the property tax goes to the school. Rochester's schools are some of the best in the country. They are nationally ranked in terms of quality of education. It's not just the graduation rate too. It's the tools that are provided to the students such as ipads, the size of the classroom relative to teachers, and the diversity of classes offered to grade students. Rochester area schools provide technical classes that you would normally only get in college.
Also, I would't discount that 9% you pay on your taxes. Especially for food. Let's say there is a family living in a $100,000 house. In Rochester the property tax would be about $2,500 to $3,000 depending on the suburb.
In TN based on the research I've done, your tax would be about $500. Imagine a family of 5 spending $200 a week in food which I think is a reasonable number. Paying tax on that food in TN, (NYS doesn't have tax on food), that's an additional $1,000 a year in taxes just on food. So now that tax is actually $1,500 in TN.
Rochester area counties are also 1-2% less on other sales tax. That family could easily spend another $200-$300 in additional taxes on going to restaurants, movies, coffee, clothes, etc.
Now the TN tax is up to $1800 vs $2,500 to $3,000. There are additional fees and taxes which you've pointed out. But the difference is in a Rochester suburb like Victor as an example, that family paying 3 grand in taxes can also send all their kids to a nationally ranked school and get a great education.
I know Rochester gets singled out for taxes, because if you can afford that half a million dollar house, then yes your tax is oversized. But for the average middle class family the tax isn't really that much different than low tax cities. And the big difference being the quality of schools that are offered.
AJT, adding onto the great info ckhthankgod has posted, 67% of the property tax goes to the school. Rochester's schools are some of the best in the country. They are nationally ranked in terms of quality of education. It's not just the graduation rate too. It's the tools that are provided to the students such as ipads, the size of the classroom relative to teachers, and the diversity of classes offered to grade students. Rochester area schools provide technical classes that you would normally only get in college.
Also, I would't discount that 9% you pay on your taxes. Especially for food. Let's say there is a family living in a $100,000 house. In Rochester the property tax would be about $2,500 to $3,000 depending on the suburb.
In TN based on the research I've done, your tax would be about $500. Imagine a family of 5 spending $200 a week in food which I think is a reasonable number. Paying tax on that food in TN, (NYS doesn't have tax on food), that's an additional $1,000 a year in taxes just on food. So now that tax is actually $1,500 in TN.
Rochester area counties are also 1-2% less on other sales tax. That family could easily spend another $200-$300 in additional taxes on going to restaurants, movies, coffee, clothes, etc.
Now the TN tax is up to $1800 vs $2,500 to $3,000. There are additional fees and taxes which you've pointed out. But the difference is in a Rochester suburb like Victor as an example, that family paying 3 grand in taxes can also send all their kids to a nationally ranked school and get a great education.
I know Rochester gets singled out for taxes, because if you can afford that half a million dollar house, then yes your tax is oversized. But for the average middle class family the tax isn't really that much different than low tax cities. And the big difference being the quality of schools that are offered.
Sure, I don't know enough about the schools there. I would hope they are great for the amount of taxes you pay. My husband says the city schools aren't good but the suburbs (he's from Webster) are. But schools here are more than adequate. There are only two private schools, as they aren't really needed here. I can't speak for the whole state but for Knoxville, yes.
I have no idea about rankings, etc. but I do feel my high school was more than adequate. They were very college-prep focused and I had no issues with teachers. I thought they prepared us quite well, actually.
Based of the quality of public schools here, I wouldn't choose nor want to pay a penny more in taxes, but that's just me.
I feel you are being conservative in your estimate of what a middle class house is. $100,000 is on the extreme low end. Double that and your tax costs start to hike exponentially. I just know that my inlaws' house is basically a POS and the fact that they pay $100 a week in taxes is unbelievable. My mom has about a $350,000 house here and only pays around $2000 a year (give or take a little). She pays 70/yr for HOA, btw. Add in no state income taxes, no tolls, no car inspections, no personal property tax, no "villiage fees" and yes, the savings are very real here. QOL is great, too. Sales tax is high but that's about it. Not discounting it, but I still don't see the COL (total tax wise) being even close here. His family is on the lower end of middle class and like I said, want to move here because their QOL would increase relative to their income.
Though I say again, I really like Roc and think it's a neat place. It's just interesting to compare things.
Sure, I don't know enough about the schools there. I would hope they are great for the amount of taxes you pay. My husband says the city schools aren't good but the suburbs (he's from Webster) are. But schools here are more than adequate. There are only two private schools, as they aren't really needed here. I can't speak for the whole state but for Knoxville, yes.
I have no idea about rankings, etc. but I do feel my high school was more than adequate. They were very college-prep focused and I had no issues with teachers. I thought they prepared us quite well, actually.
Based of the quality of public schools here, I wouldn't choose nor want to pay a penny more in taxes, but that's just me.
I feel you are being conservative in your estimate of what a middle class house is. $100,000 is on the extreme low end. Double that and your tax costs start to hike exponentially. I just know that my inlaws' house is basically a POS and the fact that they pay $100 a week in taxes is unbelievable. My mom has about a $350,000 house here and only pays around $2000 a year (give or take a little). She pays 70/yr for HOA, btw. Add in no state income taxes, no tolls, no car inspections, no personal property tax, no "villiage fees" and yes, the savings are very real here. QOL is great, too. Sales tax is high but that's about it. Not discounting it, but I still don't see the COL (total tax wise) being even close here. His family is on the lower end of middle class and like I said, want to move here because their QOL would increase relative to their income.
Though I say again, I really like Roc and think it's a neat place. It's just interesting to compare things.
Actually, $100,000 for a house in the Rochester area isn't odd, as the median home price is about $124,000. That means that half of the homes in the Rochester metro area are below that figure. Property taxes, which can vary greatly by household due to factors such as tax exemptions and location, are generally at a median rate of about 2.8% in Monroe County, if I'm not mistaken. Here are a couple of sites that kind of illustrate this: 2007 Tax Rates
In TN, the school district is Knox County that you are referring to, if I'm not mistaken. So, that is a big difference compared to the roughly 17 centralized school districts in Monroe County. That doesn't include parts of other districts in the county that are centralized in adjacent counties. Bearden is likely to get students from different parts of the county and not just from within city limits due to being in a county SD. It is also located in an area of the city that is 5 miles from Downtown and would likely be an outer city neighborhood/first ring suburb in Rochester, as Knoxville is 98.5 square miles of land versus 35.8 square miles of land for the city of Rochester. To put this into perspective, if Rochester annexed the towns of Irondequoit, Brighton and Chili into the city, that new or combined land total would only be about 8 square miles bigger than Knoxville's current city limits.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 11-08-2016 at 08:23 PM..
People who rationalize the property tax in Rochester obviously have not lived in another state. I live in a $200,000 2300 sf house in Spencerport, NY, suburb of Rochester just 10m miles west of the ROC Airport. My taxes are $10,000 per year which is absolutely ridiculous. And the idea that you get services that other State cities don't provide is even more ridiculous. I've lived in 3 other states and none of the services listed in the comments are not provided, and in all cases my property tax was significantly less. Regarding education better check Rochester's graduation rate. Both of my children attended school in TN and they command 6 figure incomes. NY's claim to education superiority is an over blown myth. The median home is now shown as $140,000 in Rochester. In Ft Wayne Ind, you pay under $1000 per year on a $150,000 home. You will never recoup the tax cost of living in Rochester and you will forfeit hundreds of thousands of dollars over your life time that could have been utilized in paying for your children's education and retirement. And this doesn't include the total lack of any reasonable appreciation of home values. I lived in TN, TX, FL and OR where each and every home appreciated substantially over very short periods of time for example 66% over 8 years in TN, 53% in 4 years in FL, 61% in OR in 5 years. I've lived in Spencerport for 15 years and my $200,000 home has appreciated a whopping 0.1% so do the math head in sand Rochesterians. I've paid $150,000 for the "services" and forfeited an average 15 home value appreciation of another $150,000 for about $300,000 in capital. Most of the taxes paid go towards big government employees wages, retirement benefits, and medical plans, not real services. Yes, govt workers and politicians, we know you pay taxes too, but you get most of it refunded currently in benefits and future retirement. Ok, now tell me to move cause it annoys you to hear all of this and keep your head buried. Just ask yourself this: Is Rochester's personal and business population growing or declining? Does Rochester have abandon homes? Get together and rise up against big NY government and protest this total BS.
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Why are property taxes so high in Rochester
