Struggling with homosexuality... (prophets, Holy Spirit, evolution, doctrine)
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You see bchris02, I reach out to you in love and honesty and I am attacked by those who disagree. Where is the love they are trying to trap you into.
As for the poster who said their is no condemnation of homosexuality I am sorry but you are wrong. When fornication and adultry are condemned then so is homosexuality. You can twist and turn scripture all you like to make your case, but all you are doing is lying to yourself and others and expressing hatred and calling it love. Sexual attraction and sexual intimacy is not so important that you need sacrifice your eternal soul for it. I can love anyone I choose, but I know the God given limits to that love and I know the difference between love and lust, and no one can trully experience love outside of Gods will.
And this is where our schools of thought differ. It's very hard to look at anything regarding homosexuality without religion coming up in this country. It's become a political issue and a matter of faith.
Christianity says homosexuality is wrong and for some people there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. For some they are more flexible in their beliefs much to chagrin of other believers. If someone is gay and all they have heard growing up their whole life is that they are abominable and bound for hell they are going to be terribly conflicted between their sexuality and their belief.
I doubt some of you are gay yourself and christian but unless you are you'll never know what it's like. I wouldn't say to a Holocaust survivor or Lost Boy that I would know what they've gone through or what they should have done. I have no idea. For some of you christians to presume you can just tell some one they can pray their problem away if they try hard enough is short sided and don't have enough info to weigh in.
I'm trying to keep the atheistic view out of it because the OP said religion is important to him. Some people can make the two work together. I don't see how and I know some of you christians don't know how either. But there is a a very hurt and conflicted person out there that doesn't need to hear a bunch of damning dogma from people who have never been through it themselves. I have been where he and many other people have. I hope he can come to a conclusion where he can live happily as a gay person and maybe even as a christian.
All my life I have been struggling with homosexual desires. I was raised by a family so conservative they make Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell look like left wing nuts. I wouldn't put it beyond my dad to kill me if he ever found out about this. I would be disowned entirely by my family nonetheless. That said I was raised in a very conservative church just a little to the left of Westboro, where gays were usually blamed for various events as God's judgment for our nation's tolerance of homosexuality. I still believe in God however and have prayed numerous times for Him to take this burden from me, but it has not happened. In addition, I live in an extremely conservative area where it would be next to impossible for me to live as an open gay man. I would have to leave my church, friends, and family and would be completely alone. I don't think I could bear that. Not that in addition to a very possible reality that I would burn in hell for eternity for it. So I am basically stuck in a pathetic existence and I need to be prepared for a long lonely life. For whatever reason God will not lift this burden from me. To my fellow Christians, what advice do you give? I can't go to my church minister about this because I'll be excommunicated from the church. I can't go to my friends and I sure can't go to my family. I know on this board i've said some things about gays that I shouldn't have but that is due to my conservative surroundings and me fighting these desires. I apologize to those ive offended.
From one Christian to another, I tell you this: You are doing the right thing by seeking answers. You won't always get the answers you want, but you'll get the answers you need and that's always better.
I have always believed that people who profess homosexuality would be perfectly happy dating a member of the opposite sex that was more like the first person's gender. For example, a "gay" man would be perfectly fine dating a manly woman... and there are plenty of women out there who, were it not for certain physical features, would be indistinguishable from men. Likewise, a "lesbian" would be perfectly fine dating a girly man... and I've known my share of girly men.
That's where I'd tell you to start. Women are gorgeous, my friend... you can't escape that. If you feel attracted to men, ask yourself why... figure out what traits about men seem to draw your attention... and then think about what it'd be like if you found yourself a WOMAN who had those same exact traits in the same exact way. Would you be attracted to said woman?
Praying to God for Him to take this burden from you is not necessarily the way to go. God is testing you. He is trying to see if you are strong enough to handle the pressure... if you can stand up for what's right despite your desires to do the opposite.
I can tell you that I went through this myself. For many years, I had the desire and the opportunity to have sex with women to whom I was not married. There were women who told me they wanted to have sex with me... and for some of them I BURNED with desire to get in bed with them... but I didn't. My sex drives were OVERdrives for a long time and that has yet to cease... but thankfully I'm married now. I waited until age 27 to get married, and that means I remained a virgin until age 27. If you want to know how hard that is to do, look at the statistics. 95% of men have lost their virginity by age 20 and I guarantee you very few of them were married by age 20. I often prayed that God would take that desire away from me but He never did. I had to keep fighting, all the way.
In the end, what did I get for it? I got many things, actually... one of which is freedom from worry (I don't have to worry about having an STD or worry about finding out a couple of years down the road that I have a baby somewhere whose deadbeat mommy is going to try to hit me for child support for 18 years)... and another of which is testimony. I can say "I did it". I can look at people and say that it is not impossible these days to remain a virgin until marriage and I am living proof of that. My wife was also a virgin when we married and we don't have to worry about comparing each other's bedroom prowess to that of anyone else because we have nobody else to whom either can compare the other!
These days, it is becoming "chic" for people to say that homosexuality is okay... and many of its defenders say that you can't understand unless you've had homosexual desires. I can honestly say that I never have... not even to the slightest degree. However, if you soldier on, continue fighting the good fight, etc... you will eventually be rewarded. Look at Paul... imprisoned, beaten, etc. for his beliefs... and did he waver? No. He stuck to what was right. I believe that you sticking to what is right is a good bit easier than Paul having to stick to what is right... you only have to repress tendencies you know are wrong. Paul had to endure torture.
If you cannot go to your church minister seeking guidance to avoid a temptation you know is wrong, you have to change churches. A minister that judgmental doesn't deserve to be a minister. (I am a "minister of music"... so I should know.) For Christians, it is fine to judge actions... not fine to judge people. It is fine to hate what is evil and wrong... not fine to hate people. You should be able to go to your minister and tell him your struggles... and believe that he will do what he can to help you through it. A minister unwilling to do that is in it for the money only... he's looking to minister only to a flock of sheep who will never even desire to stray... and if one strays, he not only lets that one leave but boots him/her out of the flock? That's wrong, dude.
Even your family shouldn't lampoon you for having desires. It's one thing to have a desire... it's another to act upon it. I'm sorry that you don't feel like you can talk with anyone about this... but in the end, if the opinion of a fellow servant of Christ matters to you, I say you're doing the right thing and you have to keep fighting the good fight. Do what's right, to the best of your ability. Find yourself a "manly woman" if you must. (Hey, lots of them like being in control. I saw it firsthand with my roommate and his girlfriend when we were in college... he was a rather effeminate dude and she was a tomboy... she definitely wore the pants in the relationship but that's the way he liked it.)
I'm not going to sit here and say I'm perfect... nobody is... but the important thing is to admit that. You need to go to a church where the pastor will say something like "we've all screwed up in our own way and if you're a perfect person, get out of here because you're going to mess up our church!".
All my life I have been struggling with homosexual desires. I was raised by a family so conservative they make Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell look like left wing nuts. I wouldn't put it beyond my dad to kill me if he ever found out about this. I would be disowned entirely by my family nonetheless. That said I was raised in a very conservative church just a little to the left of Westboro, where gays were usually blamed for various events as God's judgment for our nation's tolerance of homosexuality. I still believe in God however and have prayed numerous times for Him to take this burden from me, but it has not happened. In addition, I live in an extremely conservative area where it would be next to impossible for me to live as an open gay man. I would have to leave my church, friends, and family and would be completely alone. I don't think I could bear that. Not that in addition to a very possible reality that I would burn in hell for eternity for it. So I am basically stuck in a pathetic existence and I need to be prepared for a long lonely life. For whatever reason God will not lift this burden from me. To my fellow Christians, what advice do you give? I can't go to my church minister about this because I'll be excommunicated from the church. I can't go to my friends and I sure can't go to my family. I know on this board i've said some things about gays that I shouldn't have but that is due to my conservative surroundings and me fighting these desires. I apologize to those ive offended.
Chris, you're not an abnormal person for having these feelings. Accept the fact that you are who you are, live the best life you can, and if someone doesn't accept you for yourself, then they don't deserve to be your friend. There are churches that will accept you fully and with open arms just as you are. I'm not a Christian but I do know a little something about your Jesus, and if he's who he seemed to be he would not turn you away for being a normal human person with normal human desires.
So ignore any voices telling you it's a sin -- homosexuality has been around in humans and animals for all of known history. It's not going away because it's not wrong and it's not abnormal. Chin up, and be happy with who you are.
You see bchris02, I reach out to you in love and honesty and I am attacked by those who disagree. Where is the love they are trying to trap you into.
As for the poster who said their is no condemnation of homosexuality I am sorry but you are wrong. When fornication and adultry are condemned then so is homosexuality. You can twist and turn scripture all you like to make your case, but all you are doing is lying to yourself and others and expressing hatred and calling it love. Sexual attraction and sexual intimacy is not so important that you need sacrifice your eternal soul for it. I can love anyone I choose, but I know the God given limits to that love and I know the difference between love and lust, and no one can trully experience love outside of Gods will.
-How is projecting your own issues on to someone else, about love or honesty? How about listening to what he is actually saying?
-So if homosexuals got married, then they won't be having sex outside marriage, right? Otherwise they just need to steer clear of sex rituals in pagan temples, temple prostitution etc .
-I always thought "fornication" was just about lust, not love. Where did you get the idea that homosexuality is just about "lust"?
-Where did you get the idea that homosexuals cannot truly experience love? There are plenty of gay Christians who believe in God and believe that God loves them and who have loving committed long term relationships. And there are plenty of gay non-believers who have loving committed long term relationships. Your version of Christianity and your beliefs/opinions/views/experiences are not the only ones.
-What has adultery got to do with homosexuality? Unless you're talking about those married "ex-gays" having same-sex affairs in secret because they are living in denial of who they really are.
From one Christian to another, I tell you this: You are doing the right thing by seeking answers. You won't always get the answers you want, but you'll get the answers you need and that's always better.
I have always believed that people who profess homosexuality would be perfectly happy dating a member of the opposite sex that was more like the first person's gender. For example, a "gay" man would be perfectly fine dating a manly woman... and there are plenty of women out there who, were it not for certain physical features, would be indistinguishable from men. Likewise, a "lesbian" would be perfectly fine dating a girly man... and I've known my share of girly men.
That's where I'd tell you to start. Women are gorgeous, my friend... you can't escape that. If you feel attracted to men, ask yourself why... figure out what traits about men seem to draw your attention... and then think about what it'd be like if you found yourself a WOMAN who had those same exact traits in the same exact way. Would you be attracted to said woman?
Praying to God for Him to take this burden from you is not necessarily the way to go. God is testing you. He is trying to see if you are strong enough to handle the pressure... if you can stand up for what's right despite your desires to do the opposite.
I can tell you that I went through this myself. For many years, I had the desire and the opportunity to have sex with women to whom I was not married. There were women who told me they wanted to have sex with me... and for some of them I BURNED with desire to get in bed with them... but I didn't. My sex drives were OVERdrives for a long time and that has yet to cease... but thankfully I'm married now. I waited until age 27 to get married, and that means I remained a virgin until age 27. If you want to know how hard that is to do, look at the statistics. 95% of men have lost their virginity by age 20 and I guarantee you very few of them were married by age 20. I often prayed that God would take that desire away from me but He never did. I had to keep fighting, all the way.
In the end, what did I get for it? I got many things, actually... one of which is freedom from worry (I don't have to worry about having an STD or worry about finding out a couple of years down the road that I have a baby somewhere whose deadbeat mommy is going to try to hit me for child support for 18 years)... and another of which is testimony. I can say "I did it". I can look at people and say that it is not impossible these days to remain a virgin until marriage and I am living proof of that. My wife was also a virgin when we married and we don't have to worry about comparing each other's bedroom prowess to that of anyone else because we have nobody else to whom either can compare the other!
These days, it is becoming "chic" for people to say that homosexuality is okay... and many of its defenders say that you can't understand unless you've had homosexual desires. I can honestly say that I never have... not even to the slightest degree. However, if you soldier on, continue fighting the good fight, etc... you will eventually be rewarded. Look at Paul... imprisoned, beaten, etc. for his beliefs... and did he waver? No. He stuck to what was right. I believe that you sticking to what is right is a good bit easier than Paul having to stick to what is right... you only have to repress tendencies you know are wrong. Paul had to endure torture.
If you cannot go to your church minister seeking guidance to avoid a temptation you know is wrong, you have to change churches. A minister that judgmental doesn't deserve to be a minister. (I am a "minister of music"... so I should know.) For Christians, it is fine to judge actions... not fine to judge people. It is fine to hate what is evil and wrong... not fine to hate people. You should be able to go to your minister and tell him your struggles... and believe that he will do what he can to help you through it. A minister unwilling to do that is in it for the money only... he's looking to minister only to a flock of sheep who will never even desire to stray... and if one strays, he not only lets that one leave but boots him/her out of the flock? That's wrong, dude.
Even your family shouldn't lampoon you for having desires. It's one thing to have a desire... it's another to act upon it. I'm sorry that you don't feel like you can talk with anyone about this... but in the end, if the opinion of a fellow servant of Christ matters to you, I say you're doing the right thing and you have to keep fighting the good fight. Do what's right, to the best of your ability. Find yourself a "manly woman" if you must. (Hey, lots of them like being in control. I saw it firsthand with my roommate and his girlfriend when we were in college... he was a rather effeminate dude and she was a tomboy... she definitely wore the pants in the relationship but that's the way he liked it.)
I'm not going to sit here and say I'm perfect... nobody is... but the important thing is to admit that. You need to go to a church where the pastor will say something like "we've all screwed up in our own way and if you're a perfect person, get out of here because you're going to mess up our church!".
You sound like a nice person and I'm sure you mean well, but I'm sorry, thinking gay men should find a "manly" woman or lesbians should find a "girly" man.... It kinda makes me giggle.
I guess you musn't realise how many very "feminine" women are lesbians or how many very "masculine" men are gay, and how often feminine women end up with other feminine women and masculine men often end up with other masculine men. Gender identity is also not the same thing as sexual orientation. The stereotypes are only stereotypes because they are the "obvious" ones.
For example, a "gay" man would be perfectly fine dating a manly woman... and there are plenty of women out there who, were it not for certain physical features, would be indistinguishable from men.
All my life I have been struggling with homosexual desires. I was raised by a family so conservative they make Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell look like left wing nuts. I wouldn't put it beyond my dad to kill me if he ever found out about this. I would be disowned entirely by my family nonetheless. That said I was raised in a very conservative church just a little to the left of Westboro, where gays were usually blamed for various events as God's judgment for our nation's tolerance of homosexuality. I still believe in God however and have prayed numerous times for Him to take this burden from me, but it has not happened. In addition, I live in an extremely conservative area where it would be next to impossible for me to live as an open gay man. I would have to leave my church, friends, and family and would be completely alone. I don't think I could bear that. Not that in addition to a very possible reality that I would burn in hell for eternity for it. So I am basically stuck in a pathetic existence and I need to be prepared for a long lonely life. For whatever reason God will not lift this burden from me. To my fellow Christians, what advice do you give? I can't go to my church minister about this because I'll be excommunicated from the church. I can't go to my friends and I sure can't go to my family. I know on this board i've said some things about gays that I shouldn't have but that is due to my conservative surroundings and me fighting these desires. I apologize to those ive offended.
I know you asked for Christians and i'm Jewish so let me have a little word.The old testament,new testament,koran,etc... are guidelines and not absolute.In my religion(judaism)we don't believe in the existence of hell.Even though I am heterosexual I have been in situations where I was clearly the outsider and had to keep to myself; especially when in the military in an area that hated jews.You do have to decide for yourself if you want to stay where you are ,or move to a place where you can find a companion where it is socially acceptable.I'm not sure if we only live once but I do know that keeping this to yourself must be very lonely and you shouldn't have to deprive yourself of love.For those that would condemn you for this lifestyle,shame on them. I believe murder and rape should be condemned and not loving another even it is of the same sex. My aunt is a lesbian and came out when I was about 10 years old and at that time I didn't understand fully what that meant but since then(27 years) I have never seen her happier. Good luck in the future and hopefully it works out!
bchris, homosexuality is just as heterosexuality so ignore all of that nonthinking ramble from folk who tell you it's some abomination that needs to be dealt with. They're also wrong when they say it is a sin. The bishop John Shelby Spong(a retired liberal bishop from Newark) has explained what the bible actually said about homosexuality. His website is http://www.johnshelbyspong.com/about.aspx
Remember Jesus advocated that your god is god of love, so its rather questionable that something that is supposed to love you unconditionally would condemn you for something as menial as your sexual orientation. Stay true to yourself and don't let anyone try to prevent you from being happy and having a loving relationship with another person. Wish you the best.
bchris, homosexuality is just as heterosexuality so ignore all of that nonthinking ramble from folk who tell you it's some abomination that needs to be dealt with.
Nice personal attack. My thinking process is just fine thankyou, and has never been classified as NON.
Quote:
They're also wrong when they say it is a sin. The bishop John Shelby Spong(a retired liberal bishop from Newark) has explained what the bible actually said about homosexuality. His website is http://www.johnshelbyspong.com/about.aspx
Sex out of marriage is a sin. Same sex even more so.
Quote:
Remember Jesus advocated that your god is god of love, so its rather questionable that something that is supposed to love you unconditionally would condemn you for something as menial as your sexual orientation. Stay true to yourself and don't let anyone try to prevent you from being happy and having a loving relationship with another person. Wish you the best.
No one is saying that having relationships founded on love are wrong. Just don't do unseemly acts with that person. Plenty of people love their dogs, they just don't Luuuuuuuuvvvvvv, their dogs. Get the difference.
Nice personal attack. My thinking process is just fine thankyou, and has never been classified as NON.
Sex out of marriage is a sin. Same sex even more so.
No one is saying that having relationships founded on love are wrong. Just don't do unseemly acts with that person. Plenty of people love their dogs, they just don't Luuuuuuuuvvvvvv, their dogs. Get the difference.
Love is not Sex.
godspeed,
freedom
I have to ask----what if a homosexual couple was married but waited until they got married to have relations and the act was based on love? Trust me i'm heterosexual but if someone loves the same sex thats their feelings and I don't have a problem with it. As long as it's a commited relationship what does it matter?
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I waited until age 27 to get married, and that means I remained a virgin until age 27. If you want to know how hard that is to do, look at the statistics. 95% of men have lost their virginity by age 20 and I guarantee you very few of them were married by age 20. I often prayed that God would take that desire away from me but He never did. I had to keep fighting, all the way.
Take a moment,you're a human before a christian
