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We're talking about sin according to the god of the Bible, right? This god commanded his followers to murder infant babies. He commanded his followers to force captive women in to arranged marriages, referring to them as "property." He commanded his followers to plunder towns for financial gain, to kill children for things their parents did, to commit genocide, to slaughter throngs of animals, and on and on.
Old Testament law required that a woman (but not man) who committed fornication be lit on fire and burned to death. It required that a woman (but not man) who was unable to prove that she was a virgin be drug to the doorstep of her father's house and beat to death with rocks. It taught that a slave owner could beat his slave to death with a rod, as long as the slave survived the beating for more than twenty-four hours. It taught that eating shellfish was an abomination. It taught that wearing clothes made of more than one type of fabric was was a sin.
And Jesus openly endorsed the entire Old Testament law.
The Old Testament god defines his standards of morality and then violates those standards constantly. He responds to the barbarism of human beings with barbarism. He is vindictive, violent and pestilential. He is jealous and proud of it. He constructs a book which chronicles his involvement in human affairs and allows it to be edited constantly through the ages, so that no one can know what it originally said. He describes the Earth as resting on pillars beneath a large, star-covered dome, which was the ancient Chaldean model of the universe. He has no regard for women.
This god slaughters over one million human beings in the pages of the Old Testament, while Satan kills a few dozen. This god could see the future, but still created hell, knowing that the vast majority of human beings would occupy it. This god had to murder his son in order to forgive people, though an ordinary man can forgive people without killing anyone.
This god is a warmongering, bloodthirsty, slave-owning, woman-hating, scientifically-illiterate tyrant, if any of the Old Testament tales about him are true. If he were human, his conduct would make Adolph Hitler look ordinary. This god suspiciously resembles the ideas, superstitions and prejudices of the tribal Palestinians who wrote about him.
Needless to say, I, for one, couldn't care less about what the Christian god thinks is a sin, and I look forward to the day when he joins the thousands of other dead gods created throughout history by men who knew less about the functions of the natural world than a typical third grader does today.
Good riddance, Yahweh of the Bible. You are slowly but surely being replaced by reason and rational thinking.
Another one sees the light!
Yay!
Love God ... not the stories in that book.
No, the creator of billions of galaxies and other dimensions doesn't care what
we, on this little blue planet, do with our genitals....quoting a poster.
And welcome here rpc1...so glad to have you.
Amazing how people are waking up to a centuries old book of made up
tales, finally! Tho some I do believe, I must say....they ones about love, I do.
You have another customer for your lecture on context!
Glad to see you're starting to see the need to understand context. It really does matter.
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Originally Posted by rpc1
Is homosexuality a sin?
yes. It is.
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We're talking about sin according to the god of the Bible, right? This god commanded his followers to murder infant babies. He commanded his followers to force captive women in to arranged marriages, referring to them as "property." He commanded his followers to plunder towns for financial gain, to kill children for things their parents did, to commit genocide, to slaughter throngs of animals, and on and on.
Old Testament law required that a woman (but not man) who committed fornication be lit on fire and burned to death. It required that a woman (but not man) who was unable to prove that she was a virgin be drug to the doorstep of her father's house and beat to death with rocks. It taught that a slave owner could beat his slave to death with a rod, as long as the slave survived the beating for more than twenty-four hours. It taught that eating shellfish was an abomination. It taught that wearing clothes made of more than one type of fabric was was a sin.
All of the above is justice. Every human being is born sinful and in open defiance to God. We all deserve to be killed by God when it comes right down to it.
All of the above is justice. Every human being is born sinful and in open defiance to God. We all deserve to be killed by God when it comes right down to it.
I'd LOVE to know why people sit in your church and listen to that. Not your opinion of why they do. I'd like to hear one of them explain why they'd sit and listen to a message that says, "The moment you were born you were full of sin. You deserve to be killed by God because of it.
I'd LOVE to know why people sit in your church and listen to that.
It's what the Bible says.
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Not your opinion of why they do. I'd like to hear one of them explain why they'd sit and listen to a message that says, "The moment you were born you were full of sin. You deserve to be killed by God because of it.
To answer the OP's question: nope.
Maybe because I preach the hope that the Bible tells us -- that God redeemed us, despite the fact that we are sinners. That beats the heck out of the message so many on here spout off about just trying to live more like Jesus in hopes that we can make it to heaven.
Maybe because I preach the hope that the Bible tells us -- that God redeemed us, despite the fact that we are sinners. That beats the heck out of the message so many on here spout off about just trying to live more like Jesus in hopes that we can make it to heaven.
It's what the Bible says.
Maybe because I preach the hope that the Bible tells us -- that God redeemed us, despite the fact that we are sinners. That beats the heck out of the message so many on here spout off about just trying to live more like Jesus in hopes that we can make it to heaven.
Yeah . . . that easy believism stuff really is easier than actually trying to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't . . . as Christ instructed. Fortunately . . . hope is not necessary. We ARE saved because Christ DID it for us. But I suspect the consequences of not being recognized by Christ because you did not try to follow His instructions . . . might not be too cool . . . You know that whole "Depart from me you who called me Lord, Lord . . . " thing.
Yeah . . . that easy believism stuff really is easier than actually trying to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't . . . as Christ instructed.
The problem, of course, is that "Love God and each other" is a summary of the Law. You might as well be an OT Jew if that is how you think you are going to get to heaven. But we know that the Law never saved anyone -- it merely served to show us where we failed.
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Fortunately . . . hope is not necessary. We ARE saved because Christ DID it for us.
Who is "we" and what do you think Christ DID? Are you agreeing with the sacrificial atonement?
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But I suspect the consequences of not being recognized by Christ because you did not try to follow His instructions . . . might not be too cool . . . You know that whole "Depart from me you who called me Lord, Lord . . . " thing.
Notice those that were turned away from Christ were those that were doing good deeds? It's not about what we do.
The problem, of course, is that "Love God and each other" is a summary of the Law. You might as well be an OT Jew if that is how you think you are going to get to heaven. But we know that the Law never saved anyone -- it merely served to show us where we failed.
It has nothing to do with getting to heaven. It is all about becoming what we are supposed to become.
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Who is "we" and what do you think Christ DID? Are you agreeing with the sacrificial atonement?
There was no atonement . . . just a substitution. Christ did what we could not. He was our "designated hitter."
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Notice those that were turned away from Christ were those that were doing good deeds? It's not about what we do.
You sure got that wrong. It was the ones who did NOT treat "even the least of these, etc." who were turned away.
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