Just Wondering... (churches, punishment, Christianity, God)

[cg81]

This post from another thread explains how I see this topic. As I explained, even Christ said that He judged no man! We can present Biblical truths, but the final judge is God and His Word.

Originally Posted by cg81

After sending away the woman taken in adultery, Jesus said this to the Pharisees:

John 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

We as Christians want to follow Jesus as our example. Are we doing this? I read the following scriptures a few days ago and they impressed me.

John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Jesus said that He didn’t come to judge. That was not His purpose.. His purpose was to save. He didn’t go around telling people that they were sinners.. but rather, sinners were drawn to Him.

Shouldn’t this be our attitude as Christians? It is not our purpose to judge.. rather to point to salvation. So how do we do one and not the other?

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Verse 48 says that the word that Jesus spoke, under God’s authority, will judge in the last day.

As Christians, it is our goal to preach the gospel at all times… and sometimes, if necessary, use words. By doing this, we allow the Holy Spirit to speak to others. God is convicting the sinners, it’s not us doing this. We are not judges... that is reserved for God on the final day.

(Of course, on a message board, "words" is all we have to work with.. but is our spirit showing our focus on "judgement" or "salvation"?)

Our primary purpose, like Jesus’ purpose, is to follow God. Only then can our message be effective. Are we following Jesus’ example? Is our focus truly on "God's work" or is it on "my work"?

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by cg81

We can judge our actions and those of others in this life by comparing them to the Word of God. Of course, we can't see the whole picture. We can't actually see a person's heart, but actions are a good guage.

According to the Bible, if you accept Jesus and remain under God's grace, you will go to heaven. If you reject Jesus, you will go to hell.

That is all we can say based on the Word of God. God is the final judge and knows whether someone has accepted the gift of grace or not.

Good night! I think I should go home and go to bed too.... and it's only Tuesday!

But isn't it sort of hypocritical to say that we are going to compare someone's actions to the word of God and make a postulation of where they'll end up and then point to some quotes by Jesus who says he makes no judgment himself?

That's really confusing for me. If we are to allow ourselves the luxury of saying while someone is alive "Your actions do not reflect that of the Christian belief therefore you will probably burn in hell" then it should be just as easy as saying "This persons' actions did not reflect that of the Christian belief therefore they will probably be burning in hell."

You say that only God knows whether he has been rejected or not in someone's heart so why should you or anyone make the distinction to anyone else while we are alive? How do YOU know that I need to change my ways, cg81? What if I'm ever much the devout Christian who just decides to pose difficult strange questions to test people's faith?

It seems to me that the reservation to be judgmental of someone's actions is upheld while they are alive but typically gone when they are dead but it should really make no difference. I sincerely do not think it's fair that we should look at some people and tell them that they will more than likely go to hell if they don't change their ways but turn our heads the other way when they don't and die. In all honesty, I think that when someone dies who people suspect of going to hell, that Christians should come out and tell everyone at the funeral that the person is more than likely burning in hell.

If you really sit back and think about it, I do not understand how this is any different than telling someone that they are probably going to hell while they are alive. In fact, if the people at the funeral really believed in the Christian God they should be wondering about the state of their loved one themselves, right? To tell someone that they are probably going to hell when they are alive and to say that someone is probably in hell right now is really the same train of thought, no? The only difference is that the person is dead.


To me, the entire thought of thinking about whether my loved one is going to have the flesh seared off of them as I am mourning their death seems quite distasteful. As Blue mentioned before, it really does seem to negate the love of God doesn't it? I really fail to see why I should want to worship something such as that... I really do.

[Oakback]

I probably get flamed ( no pun intended ) for this....

I speculate that if anyone is in "hell", they want to be there.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Oakback

I speculate that if anyone is in "hell", they want to be there.

And what about the people who don't believe in hell?
I only get an icecream when I want 1.
The fact that someone is offering me an icecream doesn't mean that I want it (read: accept it).
Especially if it ain't the flavour that I like.

Originally Posted by cg81

As I explained, even Christ said that He judged no man!

If Christ judges no one, what is then the point of sin and having a heaven and hell?

[arod0331]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

How many people feel they have a relative or friend currently residing in hell or some place like it?

I don't believe in Hell. Too bad because I know a few who belonged there.

[cg81]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

But isn't it sort of hypocritical to say that we are going to compare someone's actions to the word of God and make a postulation of where they'll end up and then point to some quotes by Jesus who says he makes no judgment himself?

I'll try to make it really simple... (BTW.. I don't make any postulations of where anyone will end up, as I explained.)

Let's say you are on a sinking ship. I come up to you and say "You need to put your life jacket on. Look, it's right beside you. If you don't put it on, you will drown." I'm making a judgement here. I'm not saying "you will drown" but "IF you don't put on your life jacket you will drown."

I keep going thru the ship telling people to put on their life jackets. Once again, I'm not proclaiming to people that they are going to drown, but rather that they should put on their life jackets. Warning is not the same as judging someone's destiny. I cannot judge whether you will put on your life jacket or not.. why should I assume you will drown?

Finally I get to the end of the ship and it sinks.

Did you grab your life jacket before the ship sank? I have no way of knowing. All I did was my part in warning..."IF".

Jesus likewise didn't tell anyone "You are going to drown." He offered the remedy. In this case, whether we have drowned or not will be judged by the "Search Party".

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by cg81

Warning is not the same as judging someone's destiny.

The thing is that warning people of a non-existent danger would be as immoral (and criminal) as yelling fire in an overcrowded movie theatre when there is no fire at all.
Regardless, if 1 person acts panicked and runs to the exit everyone will start panicking and stampede to the exit with the real danger of trampling anyone who stands in their way.

[cg81]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

The thing is that warning people of a non-existent danger would be as immoral (and criminal) as yelling fire in an overcrowded movie theatre when there is no fire at all.
Regardless, if 1 person acts panicked and runs to the exit everyone will start panicking and stampede to the exit with the real danger of trampling anyone who stands in their way.

True.. but this still does not change the fact that "warning is not the same as judging someone's destiny."

[Miss Blue]

I think Troop wants to know if a person is faithful enough to say that a good person is in heaven as his eternal reward.. Is he not also faithful enough to say a bad person is in hell suffering his eternal punishment..I don't think he wants to hear the thou shall not judge thing, he wants to hear about your faith that makes one so bold in their testimonials and in their ministeriung to those who are not believers or those you would like to think the way you do about matters of God..
This is the reason it is so hard to witness to a nonbeliever..his tough questions are ignored..I have heard many christians make these statements to each other about the dearly departed..Yet I doubt they would say it here either..
I think a nonbeliever is most impressed and interested in what a person believes, if he just tells him what he believes and leaves all the bible verses out of the answer. Personally I go with the belief that each journey begins with one small step..That being one simple answer that so many avoid answering..

[GCSTroop]

Thank you again, Blue. You're spot on once again.


I PROMISE I will rep you when I am allowed to.