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When I tell someone those other things, they aren't prayers at all. They're just a hope for good luck.
No sir!
They ARE forms of prayers.
When you wish some a safe trip, what you are saying is, “I don’t have the power and control to make your travel safe, but I hope the force who has this power and control over events, makes it happen for you”
Otherwise, think about it.
If you had the power and control over making someone’s travel safe, you wont hope and wish them, you will just make it happen.
But you already know that someone/force, CAN make it happen, there IS a possibility, so that’s why you hope and wish them. Otherwise, what’s the point of wishing them a safe travel?
Let’s say, someone needs help paying for groceries and they are short a dollar. And you have the ability to donate one. So you go ahead and hand them a dollar bill. You don’t say; “I wish you get a dollar”.
When you wish some a safe trip, what you are saying is, “I don’t have the power and control to make your travel safe, but I hope the force who has this power and control over events, makes it happen for you”
Otherwise, think about it.
If you had the power and control over making someone’s travel safe, you wont hope and wish them, you will just make it happen.
But you already know that someone/force, CAN make it happen, there IS a possibility, so that’s why you hope and wish them. Otherwise, what’s the point of wishing them a safe travel?
Let’s say, someone needs help paying for groceries and they are short a dollar. And you have the ability to donate one. So you go ahead and hand them a dollar bill. You don’t say; “I wish you get a dollar”.
No, that may be how you think. It is not how I think. You seem to think that all people have to think like an extremely religious person. We don't.
When you wish some a safe trip, what you are saying is, “I don’t have the power and control to make your travel safe, but I hope the force who has this power and control over events, makes it happen for you”
Otherwise, think about it.
If you had the power and control over making someone’s travel safe, you wont hope and wish them, you will just make it happen.
But you already know that someone/force, CAN make it happen, there IS a possibility, so that’s why you hope and wish them. Otherwise, what’s the point of wishing them a safe travel?
Let’s say, someone needs help paying for groceries and they are short a dollar. And you have the ability to donate one. So you go ahead and hand them a dollar bill. You don’t say; “I wish you get a dollar”.
Nope. If I wish someone a safe trip, that's all it is - wishful thinking.
What if I wish someone a safe trip and they have a car crash?
Are you saying God listened but decided the opposite and made them have a car crash instead?
It's like the old 'thoughts and prayers' adage after a disaster. As if thoughts and prayers are going to make any difference whatsoever, past, present or future.
No thoughts, prayer or salutation are going to have any effect on the universe whatsoever unless you say them to the person directly, then they might have a psychological effect in making that person feel more positive about themselves, cheer them up, encourage them and so on. In that respect they are useful and worthwhile. But not because any higher power is involved, but because YOU had a positive effect on that person's life, albeit a small one.
When you wish some a safe trip, what you are saying is, “I don’t have the power and control to make your travel safe, but I hope the force who has this power and control over events, makes it happen for you”
Otherwise, think about it.
If you had the power and control over making someone’s travel safe, you wont hope and wish them, you will just make it happen.
But you already know that someone/force, CAN make it happen, there IS a possibility, so that’s why you hope and wish them. Otherwise, what’s the point of wishing them a safe travel?
Let’s say, someone needs help paying for groceries and they are short a dollar. And you have the ability to donate one. So you go ahead and hand them a dollar bill. You don’t say; “I wish you get a dollar”.
First of all atheists do not think that someone or something has the power to make your trip safe. The point of wishing you a safe trip is to show them you care
And prayers are not money. If someone needs a dollar for their groceries you give them a dollar not wishes or prayers. If prayers worked like money everyonevwould pay their taxex or buy their cars with prayers.
If a religious person prays for an atheist not knowing that they sre an atheist is much different than when a religious person prays knowing tha the person is.
Nope. If I wish someone a safe trip, that's all it is - wishful thinking.
What if I wish someone a safe trip and they have a car crash?
Are you saying God listened but decided the opposite and made them have a car crash instead?
It's like the old 'thoughts and prayers' adage after a disaster. As if thoughts and prayers are going to make any difference whatsoever, past, present or future.
No thoughts, prayer or salutation are going to have any effect on the universe whatsoever unless you say them to the person directly, then they might have a psychological effect in making that person feel more positive about themselves, cheer them up, encourage them and so on. In that respect they are useful and worthwhile. But not because any higher power is involved, but because YOU had a positive effect on that person's life, albeit a small one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
First of all atheists do not think that someone or something has the power to make your trip safe. The point of wishing you a safe trip is to show them you care
And prayers are not money. If someone needs a dollar for their groceries you give them a dollar not wishes or prayers. If prayers worked like money everyonevwould pay their taxex or buy their cars with prayers.
If a religious person prays for an atheist not knowing that they sre an atheist is much different than when a religious person prays knowing tha the person is.
Whether prayers get answered or not, to our desired outcome is obviously a scenario where you can only try, and hope for the best and settle for whatever the outcome is. That's generally the mindset of a believer.
However, besides that, are you guys saying that when Atheists wish someone a safe trip, or a goodnight wish, it's actually a fake and shallow formation of words that don't really have any meaning to it - because Atheists already know that "it won't have any effect on the universe whatsoever" - you guys say it, just so that the listener feels better about you and know that you care?
Whether prayers get answered or not, to our desired outcome is obviously a scenario where you can only try, and hope for the best and settle for whatever the outcome is. That's generally the mindset of a believer.
However, besides that, are you guys saying that when Atheists wish someone a safe trip, or a goodnight wish, it's actually a fake and shallow formation of words that don't really have any meaning to it - because Atheists already know that "it won't have any effect on the universe whatsoever" - you guys say it, just so that the listener feels better about you and know that you care?
No.
It's more like a compliment. Like saying, "I value you, so I hope you have a safe and enjoyable trip". "I value you, so I hope you recover from your illness".
But why don't you stop telling us what we mean and just listen to what we mean?
Whether prayers get answered or not, to our desired outcome is obviously a scenario where you can only try, and hope for the best and settle for whatever the outcome is. That's generally the mindset of a believer.
However, besides that, are you guys saying that when Atheists wish someone a safe trip, or a goodnight wish, it's actually a fake and shallow formation of words that don't really have any meaning to it - because Atheists already know that "it won't have any effect on the universe whatsoever" - you guys say it, just so that the listener feels better about you and know that you care?
No its as far from a fake formation of words as it can be. If I wish someone a safe trip that is exactly what I msan, I hope their trip is safe and all goes well. If it was fake then I eould say it to people I do not care if they crash and burn on their trip.
Same as saying have a good day Merry Christmss Happy Birthday, Happy New Years ot I hope the Oilers win the Cup this year. Showing you care is not fake.
Now for those who are hoping the Maple Leafs win the Cup that requires a Super Natiral being
Last edited by badlander; 03-22-2022 at 12:47 PM..
Reason: Correct spelling of Maple
Speaking only for myself, when someone tells me about some terrible thing happening to them (for example, a coworker of mine has an adult son who appears to be dying of cancer) I will say things like "my positive thoughts are with you" as a way of (1) catering to their social expectations without being dishonest, since I am not praying for him but and (2) showing that I care, at least for some given value of "care". I genuinely feel for him, especially having lost my own adult son, and my thoughts are in that sense "with" him. But neither I nor (I'm pretty sure) he expects that will have any actual impact other than him knowing that I'm bearing witness to his suffering and him feeling an eensy bit less alone in it.
I will also generally offer some concrete help, such as, "if you ever want to just talk, call (or email) me and I will listen". If he asks for advice, and I have some to give, I will offer that up also.
None of the above suggests that I'm praying in any way, shape, or form ... quite the opposite really. "I'm praying for you" more or less translates in my mind to "I probably didn't actually stop and pray, but whether I did nor not, my claim to have prayed gets me off the hook for actually caring and I need not be put out or uncomfortable or actually sit with your pain in any way".
Speaking only for myself, when someone tells me about some terrible thing happening to them (for example, a coworker of mine has an adult son who appears to be dying of cancer) I will say things like "my positive thoughts are with you" as a way of (1) catering to their social expectations without being dishonest, since I am not praying for him but and (2) showing that I care, at least for some given value of "care". I genuinely feel for him, especially having lost my own adult son, and my thoughts are in that sense "with" him. But neither I nor (I'm pretty sure) he expects that will have any actual impact other than him knowing that I'm bearing witness to his suffering and him feeling an eensy bit less alone in it.
I will also generally offer some concrete help, such as, "if you ever want to just talk, call (or email) me and I will listen". If he asks for advice, and I have some to give, I will offer that up also.
None of the above suggests that I'm praying in any way, shape, or form ... quite the opposite really. "I'm praying for you" more or less translates in my mind to "I probably didn't actually stop and pray, but whether I did nor not, my claim to have prayed gets me off the hook for actually caring and I need not be put out or uncomfortable or actually sit with your pain in any way".
Very similar to what I may say in a similar situation: "You will be in my meditations". The problem for some is that sounds like a prayer. But as a monk once told me: "Buddha's dead. He can't answer your prayers". So they aren't prayers...just a way of saying "You're my friend and I worry for you and hope for the best that can happen". But I don't ask for anything.
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