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Why does nobody find it odd that a god who made the vastness of the universe can feel the petty priggish jealousy of an immature little teenager schoolgirl?
Who decided that God's jealousy is that of an "immature little teenager schoolgirl"? Do *you* really have that much divine maturity to make that decision about God?
Is it "immature" to expect that our spouse be emotionally/sexually faithful to us? It's one thing to talk to another man (for instance) about the weather...or the newest library books. It's quite another matter for me to flirt with the man, to the point of me jumping into bed with him. The "immature little teenager schoolgirl " jealousy would be if I talked about the weather with another man. But if my husband was jealous because I slept with another man, would his jealousy be unjustified? Or, in your mind, is ALL jealousy the same? And, would his jealousy be "immature little teenager schoolgirl-ish"?
If God created us in His "own image"...and if that image includes some smidge of jealousy...wouldn't it make sense that if *we* become jealous at unfaithfulness...SO DOES GOD? And that we're too spiritually immature to get what's divine and what isn't...because we don't have ALL of God's knowledge?
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For I the Lord your god am a JEALOUS god and I will smite the living daylights out of you if you so much as even glance at another god.
Ditto, but they annoy the hell out of the atheists here!!
Yes...and notice how they never seriously tackle what he presents?
They can't...because he is looking at claims both logically and pragmatically.
What comports with observations and provides a mechanism that can help to make predictions off of?
That shakes things out real quick.
And "Dismiss & deny everything", is totally flawed. You can't figure out anything off of that.
Who decided that God's jealousy is that of an "immature little teenager schoolgirl"? Do *you* really have that much divine maturity to make that decision about God?
Is it "immature" to expect that our spouse be emotionally/sexually faithful to us? It's one thing to talk to another man (for instance) about the weather...or the newest library books. It's quite another matter for me to flirt with the man, to the point of me jumping into bed with him. The "immature little teenager schoolgirl " jealousy would be if I talked about the weather with another man. But if my husband was jealous because I slept with another man, would his jealousy be unjustified? Or, in your mind, is ALL jealousy the same? And, would his jealousy be "immature little teenager schoolgirl-ish"?
If God created us in His "own image"...and if that image includes some smidge of jealousy...wouldn't it make sense that if *we* become jealous at unfaithfulness...SO DOES GOD? And that we're too spiritually immature to get what's divine and what isn't...because we don't have ALL of God's knowledge?
I just get this icky feeling that a god who is so vast he can hold the universe in the palm of his hand can have any sort of romantic impulses toward humans. It's like me getting jealous of seeing the queen in my ant colony mating and I get jealous of her. I get the feeling that this portrait of Yahweh was written by scholars trying to imagine how their god should be behaving toward the Hebrew people but they could only imagine their god in terms of primitive human emotions. So Yahweh loves and he hates and he gets jealous and he gets angry. And he acts out these emotions EXACTLY the way humans do. When he gets angry he throws a fit and commits genocide; when he gets jealous enough he murders his own people. Let's face it: jealousy, hate and anger are ugly emotions--there's nothing noble or glorious about me getting so jealous of my girlfriend talking to another guy that I beat her senseless and then murder her to keep her from cheating on me. Civilization deplores that kind of attitude of a man toward females. It's frankly misogynistic. I"m not surprised the Bible talks about Jesus marrying his bride. It's covertly sexual and many women I've read about have deep unspoken lust for this husky manly Jesus depicted in so many drawings. Check out these lyrics from some Christian songs:
He is jealous for me,
loves like a hurricane, I am a tree,
bending beneath the weight of His wind and mercy.
When all of a sudden, I am unaware
of these afflictions eclipsed by glory. I realize just how beautiful You are
and how great Your affections are for me.
Oh, how He loves us so; oh, how He loves us.
how He loves us so;
Oh, how He loves us so. Oh, how he loves us;
how He loves us so.
The long shadow of “hot Jesus”
The Christ of my youth was benevolent and handsome. So why was I treated like the ungodly temptation?
No, the burden is on the one making the positive claim. You are claiming there is something called the supernatural, so it is on you to present valid evidence for it.
One does not create a burden of proof merely by disagreeing or objecting -- and objecting is not accusing. Harry is not asserting the supernatural, you are.
for the first hundred or so posts; mord you have a point. When you reach thousands of them its time to man up.
what seems more reliable. As you know, if the claim has a mechanism, explanations, and makes predictions it is more reliable than deny everything for thousands for posts. Across multiple internet sites.
again, lets look at what beliefs match what we see around us.
1- deity
2-some thing more (we can discuss the various ones on a sliding scale)
3-I don't have to say anything but your wrong. Wrap up in "I don't see convincing evidence". For, literally years and years over ten of thousands of posts.
4- there aint no notin more.
You're a system analyst. What is more reliable Mord? Just using common sense?
I just get this icky feeling that a god who is so vast he can hold the universe in the palm of his hand can have any sort of romantic impulses toward humans.
Romantic? No. Loving fellowship, yes. Seems like a lot of people these days, can't distinguish between "brotherly" love and "romantic" love. My goodness.... if there's no "romantic" love, there's no "love" at all...?
Quote:
It's like me getting jealous of seeing the queen in my ant colony mating and I get jealous of her.
Again, there's a BIG difference between 'romantic' love and 'brotherly' love.
Quote:
I get the feeling that this portrait of Yahweh was written by scholars trying to imagine how their god should be behaving toward the Hebrew people but they could only imagine their god in terms of primitive human emotions. So Yahweh loves and he hates and he gets jealous and he gets angry. And he acts out these emotions EXACTLY the way humans do.
Or...is it that humans act out emotions the way Yahweh does...?
Quote:
When he gets angry he throws a fit and commits genocide; when he gets jealous enough he murders his own people.
Yahweh can't commit "genocide" or "murder" any more than *I* can commit a criminal act if I decide to destroy a building that *I* built on property that I own. Or, if I decide to toss a cake that I made from scratch, into the trash. We define murder as the "unlawful" killing of another human being. Please define, In GOD'S eyes, what is "unlawful"...
Quote:
Let's face it: jealousy, hate and anger are ugly emotions--there's nothing noble or glorious about me getting so jealous of my girlfriend talking to another guy that I beat her senseless and then murder her to keep her from cheating on me. Civilization deplores that kind of attitude of a man toward females. It's frankly misogynistic. I"m not surprised the Bible talks about Jesus marrying his bride. It's covertly sexual and many women I've read about have deep unspoken lust for this husky manly Jesus depicted in so many drawings. Check out these lyrics from some Christian songs:
This is like...not 'cool' on a few levels...
In *my* bible, a man is not supposed to take a woman as his bride in LUST, but rather in honor and respect.
Of course, *my* bible has more books that *your* bible.
*shrugs*
Quote:
He is jealous for me,
loves like a hurricane, I am a tree,
bending beneath the weight of His wind and mercy.
When all of a sudden, I am unaware
of these afflictions eclipsed by glory. I realize just how beautiful You are
and how great Your affections are for me.
Oh, how He loves us so; oh, how He loves us.
how He loves us so;
Oh, how He loves us so. Oh, how he loves us;
how He loves us so.
Can be interpreted in many ways...not ONLY as a human lover and the object of his love...
Obviously, that's your opinion, to which you're entitled. But I don't think "the Divine" or "God" is necessary to explain what science does. I prefer to see it as Alan Guth sees it: "science is.... an ongoing detective story, in which scientists passionately search for clues in the hope of unraveling the mysteries of the universe."
Well, yes, that's my view.
I perceive "GOD" to be Reality (ALL That Is)...so, of course any research is about The Divine, as it can't be anything but.
My perception of God aligns with the oldest perceptions of The Divine...older than Religion.
Not true, mordant. MOST of our legal system is based on the party making the negative claim. Innocent until proven guilty. Remember? The burden of proof isn't on the one accused; it's on the 'accuser'...
Just to give you a bit of heads up, satan is known as the 'accuser'.
I am not speaking of the legal system, but widely accepted standards of debate and discussion.
And you appear to not understand what a positive claim is and isn't. Even in the legal system, the burden of proof is on the accuser because it is the accuser that is making a positive claim: the defendant committed [insert crime here]. Further, the accuser must present evidence.
That is your role. You are making the positive claim that the supernatural a thing. So it is on you to prove it. Not Harry, not me, not someone else. It is on you. The role of any non-credulous observer is to ask for proof so that we can assess your truth claim. So provide it.
The problem for you is that you can't, because we are creatures of the natural world, and can only assess the natural world. So something that is allegedly outside the natural order is inherently no just unsubstantiatED, but unsubstantiatABLE; it can ONLY be asserted. And so you are trying to make someone simply asking you to evidence your positive claim into an "accuser".
Not true, mordant. MOST of our legal system is based on the party making the negative claim. Innocent until proven guilty. Remember? The burden of proof isn't on the one accused; it's on the 'accuser'...
Just to give you a bit of heads up, satan is known as the 'accuser'.
Accusing a person of a crime is not a negative claim but a positive one. One seldom gets accused of not doing someting which would be a negative claim
Romantic? No. Loving fellowship, yes. Seems like a lot of people these days, can't distinguish between "brotherly" love and "romantic" love. My goodness.... if there's no "romantic" love, there's no "love" at all...?
Again, there's a BIG difference between 'romantic' love and 'brotherly' love.
Or...is it that humans act out emotions the way Yahweh does...?
Yahweh can't commit "genocide" or "murder" any more than *I* can commit a criminal act if I decide to destroy a building that *I* built on property that I own. Or, if I decide to toss a cake that I made from scratch, into the trash. We define murder as the "unlawful" killing of another human being. Please define, In GOD'S eyes, what is "unlawful"...
This is like...not 'cool' on a few levels...
In *my* bible, a man is not supposed to take a woman as his bride in LUST, but rather in honor and respect.
Of course, *my* bible has more books that *your* bible.
*shrugs*
Can be interpreted in many ways...not ONLY as a human lover and the object of his love...
You're missing the point, Mink. It many be just your naïvety getting in the way of the reality of the situation. I don't say all women--many women aren't as naive as you. But there is a covert effort among many in Christianity to portray Jesus as this hunky, sexy guy that a young girl not fully mature in her sexual feelings can fail to distinguish between what is "brotherly" love" and what is "incestuous" brotherly love. Check out the images in the link below. Gives a whole new meaning to "The Body of Christ", doesn't it? Trust me these pics of a shirtless buff muscular Jesus are in a lot of places. There's no mistaking what these images are designed to do: to attract young people, especially young girls to get interested in Jesus as the kind of loving, caring superhero he-man they could never find in real life. Jesus is becoming a surrogate lover for women who believe they have no hope of every finding one in real life. The lyrics are not the decent loving type; they are covertly hyper-sexualized:
Fill me with Your love again
Fill me with Your love again (Is it really love Amy Grant wants Jesus to fill her with, or something else) I open my heart and soul for you to enter me (is it really her heart and soul Amy is opening to Jesus to enter--or something else) And fill me with Your love again
Psychologists would have no problem recognizing what these lyrics are suggesting.
Yes, I guess you've said that before. I'd say it's a very nonstandard definition of "God," in the U.S. at least, where God is more typically thought of as some supernatural entity.
It is actually the main formal definition of "G-O-D".
God noun
\ˈgäd also ˈgȯd\
plural gods
Definition of god
(Entry 1 of 2)
1God: the supreme or ultimate reality
Also...there is no such thing as something that's "supernatural"...though there are a lot of natural things that are super.
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