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I do not accept your construct. The killing of young children is wrong, period. The gun culture of the US allows for more school shootings. The shooter should not have been able to access as much firepower as he did so easily. Parents should not need to go through this terror. Children who were not killed should not have to have gone through this terror.
Up until two years ago our house backed onto an elementary school. We got 25 years of watching children walking to school and playing in the school yardd and walking home after school. Young children happy or sad, full of life and little fears in their young minds. That is what childhood should be for most kids.
I feel that you deep down believe that your God is responsible for all that happens to us and it seems like you are trying to rationalize this tragedy with your concept of your God. However to a non believer it sounds callous towards the victims, survivors and their families and makes your God anything but fair, just and loving. Ill leave it at that as our views are so opposite that we can not see each others view and I do not mean to insult you or your beliefs.
I don't see you as trying to insult me, and I appreciate that you're not. You seem to be one of a 'few' people here who is trying to understand my thinking...as a Christian...instead of condemning.
I do not believe that *my* God is responsible for all that happens. I do see two opposing forces at work here: Good and Evil. And yes, while God allows 'evil', it's to contrast to what is 'good'.
I'm not insensitive to non-believers. Heck, I came pretty close to becoming a non-believer myself for a few years, as I posted to LearnMe a few weeks ago. But I realized that I never really gave my belief a chance. I never tried to understand. And once I did, it all came together for me. I realized that there's so much more to this life that we don't understand. And, while tragedies do occur, it doesn't necessarily mean that's it's all 'bad'.
I look at it like this: What IF the seemingly senseless deaths of those children, actually brought SOME people closer to God? And while you, as a non-believer, may think, "How could ANYONE become closer to God because of this tragedy?", perhaps for SOME, it happens.
A casket-maker personally went to the homes of some of the deceased. He offered to personalize the caskets of each and every child. From what I believe and understand about God, God elevated this guy to one of the highest positions in heaven because of his compassion and sincerity. Because of his heart. If this guy had any 'stain' of sin on his soul, those sins would have been wiped out, because of his kindness. So, in a sense, the deaths of those children just might save other souls.
I wish I had more time to write about this.
Last edited by mensaguy; 05-30-2022 at 03:59 PM..
Reason: Removed extra quote tag
Crazy?????? You want to see crazy? Here are the people leading the Christian church today.
Tell me if the Christian god condones this kind of leadership? If he doesn't then why doesn't he get off his behind and do something about it--like supernaturally remove them in some way, or is that a violation of their free will to act insane for $$$$'s?
The problem is not what the Omnimax Powered Deity that knows everything and can do anything, and has thoughts and ways that are above yours, does or doesn't do.
According to the literal Bible interpretation you employ.
It is your ignorance and arrogance to think you should (or even could) critique or judge this All-powerful, All-knowing, Universe Creating God, using your vastly inferior thoughts, ways, and understanding.
You are trying to operate way, way, way beyond your level compared to God...according to the literal Bible.
THAT'S the real problem...you are just too biased & obsessed with the issue to cop to your vastly inferior position.
If you got hip to that...it would solve this whole problem you have.
No, not necessarily a 'good' reason, but a reason that was perhaps out of his control.
I recall in the bible that a man possessed by a demon came to Jesus. (I really don't feel like looking up Bible scripture right now. But I'm certain that you have pretty extensive knowledge of the Bible, so you'll know what I'm talking about). Jesus commanded the demon to come out of the man.
If the man was possessed by a demon, would the man be held accountable for his actions?
The two are not even comparable, Mink, and honestly with your intelligence I believe you know this. or you should. What's happening is that you're trying to squeeze your square Christian beliefs into a round world reality and it's very bad when a person allows their religion to dictate their common sense.
First of all, 2000 years ago everybody believed in demons. Today no psychiatrist in his right mind would certify a person as possessed by demons. Ramos was not insane. He didn't run around screaming and flapping his arms. He coldly, quietly and methodically calculated how he was going to slaughter children. He was bullied as a child and afraid to stand up to people as big as him. That's why he chose helpless little victims who couldn't fight back. He was perfectly in control of his actions.
The two are not even comparable, Mink, and honestly with your intelligence I believe you know this. or you should. What's happening is that you're trying to squeeze your square Christian beliefs into a round world reality and it's very bad when a person allows their religion to dictate their common sense.
I think they are compatible. Thrill, I don't pretend...or to come across...as if *I know everything. I'm simply putting forth *my* views. I'm not claiming that *my* views are worthy of the truth. I obviously don't have the time to put forth ALL of my views. If I did, I'd write book...
...or two. I just see the world differently than you do. I tend to believe that there's a greater purpose for us being here, on planet earth. That material things don't matter so much in God's 'house'. That our selfishness and hubris...and lack of charity play more an important role toward God than our money...and 'things'.
Common sense? I'm not even sure how "common" common sense is.
Quote:
First of all, 2000 years ago everybody believed in demons. Today no psychiatrist in his right mind would certify a person as possessed by demons. Ramos was not insane. He didn't run around screaming and flapping his arms. He coldly, quietly and methodically calculated how he was going to slaughter children. He was bullied as a child and afraid to stand up to people as big as him. That's why he chose helpless little victims who couldn't fight back.
Actually, people believed in demons well before 2000 years ago.
And while "no psychiatrist in his right mind would certify a person as possessed by demons", it' awfully funny that people who DO seem to be possessed by demons, are relieved by a priest who exorcised those demons. Why is it that there have been reports of "Born Agains" and/or non-Catholics who have tried...and failed to exorcise demons...yet, when a Catholic priest was called in, the demons vanished?
ETA: I gotta get out of the house for a while. Will back later...
I do not accept your construct. The killing of young children is wrong, period. The gun culture of the US allows for more school shootings. The shooter should not have been able to access as much firepower as he did so easily. Parents should not need to go through this terror. Children who were not killed should not have to have gone through this terror.
Up until two years ago our house backed onto an elementary school. We got 25 years of watching children walking to school and playing in the school yardd and walking home after school. Young children happy or sad, full of life and little fears in their young minds. That is what childhood should be for most kids.
I don't see you as trying to insult me, and I appreciate that you're not. You seem to be one of a 'few' people here who is trying to understand my thinking...as a Christian...instead of condemning.
I do not believe that *my* God is responsible for all that happens. I do see two opposing forces at work here: Good and Evil. And yes, while God allows 'evil', it's to contrast to what is 'good'.
I'm not insensitive to non-believers. Heck, I came pretty close to becoming a non-believer myself for a few years, as I posted to LearnMe a few weeks ago. But I realized that I never really gave my belief a chance. I never tried to understand. And once I did, it all came together for me. I realized that there's so much more to this life that we don't understand. And, while tragedies do occur, it doesn't necessarily mean that's it's all 'bad'.
I look at it like this: What IF the seemingly senseless deaths of those children, actually brought SOME people closer to God? And while you, as a non-believer, may think, "How could ANYONE become closer to God because of this tragedy?", perhaps for SOME, it happens.
A casket-maker personally went to the homes of some of the deceased. He offered to personalize the caskets of each and every child. From what I believe and understand about God, God elevated this guy to one of the highest positions in heaven because of his compassion and sincerity. Because of his heart. If this guy had any 'stain' of sin on his soul, those sins would have been wiped out, because of his kindness. So, in a sense, the deaths of those children just might save other souls.
I wish I had more time to write about this.
Thank you. It is a pleasure to have an jnteresting and civil discussion with a person who has the exact opposite take of a stance and further our ubderstanding of each other. I just wished the subject was not so sad.
Last edited by mensaguy; 05-30-2022 at 04:01 PM..
Reason: Tried to fix quote
I think they are compatible. Thrill, I don't pretend...or to come across...as if *I know everything. I'm simply putting forth *my* views. I'm not claiming that *my* views are worthy of the truth. I obviously don't have the time to put forth ALL of my views. If I did, I'd write book...
...or two. I just see the world differently than you do. I tend to believe that there's a greater purpose for us being here, on planet earth. That material things don't matter so much in God's 'house'. That our selfishness and hubris...and lack of charity play more an important role toward God than our money...and 'things'.
Common sense? I'm not even sure how "common" common sense is.
Actually, people believed in demons well before 2000 years ago.
And while "no psychiatrist in his right mind would certify a person as possessed by demons", it' awfully funny that people who DO seem to be possessed by demons, are relieved by a priest who exorcised those demons. Why is it that there have been reports of "Born Agains" and/or non-Catholics who have tried...and failed to exorcise demons...yet, when a Catholic priest was called in, the demons vanished?
ETA: I gotta get out of the house for a while. Will back later...
Mink, honestly I refuse to believe you believe all this. I feel like I"m talking to gldnrule now and I can't tolerate that. I'll bow out.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 05-30-2022 at 12:23 PM..
I wonder if someone can explain to me why the one thread was merged with the other thread, as if they are one and the same topic? They are not. Then too what most of these comments have to do with the topic of either thread...
The title of this thread is a bit daffy for a couple of reasons, beginning with "An Evil God." As if atheism involves any kind of god. Good, bad or ugly.
The two threads were merged at the OP's request when the OP realized he had started another thread on the same thought, but I don't think either title really said what it was he is trying to express. When a thread is merged, the older one is going to be the one that the newer merges into.
I THINK his thoughts are running along the line that it's not God in general that people reject, but rather the cruel, evil version of God that is often presented and how that presentation of God is what screws things up. He can correct me if I am wrong.
And maybe if someone can think of a more accurate title, we could change it.
Mink, honestly I refuse to believe you believe all this. I feel like I"m talking to gldnrule now and I can't tolerate that. I'll bow out.
Oh...don't do that, please. Unfortunately, the internet doesn't lend to ALL of our devices. If you REALLY wanted to know ALL of my thinking, I'd have to write a freaking book. And even THEN, I probably wouldn't be able to put it into words that others would understand...
I mean, if I was standing in front of you, I'd probably be taking you by the shoulders...shaking you...and saying, "What ARE you? NUTZ? You STARTED this thread! Don't back out because of some Christian 'Mink-like" words!"
Oh...don't do that, please. Unfortunately, the internet doesn't lend to ALL of our devices. If you REALLY wanted to know ALL of my thinking, I'd have to write a freaking book. And even THEN, I probably wouldn't be able to put it into words that others would understand...
I mean, if I was standing in front of you, I'd probably be taking you by the shoulders...shaking you...and saying, "What ARE you? NUTZ? You STARTED this thread! Don't back out because of some Christian 'Mink-like" words!"
I'm here, fighting for *my* beliefs, thrill.
Do the same.
ETA: I told you before that I had to take a break for a spell. Turns out that the break starts sooner than I thought. Will be back after a few days. Till then, best wishes.
ETA: I told you before that I had to take a break for a spell. Turns out that the break starts sooner than I thought. Will be back after a few days. Till then, best wishes.
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You want to see crazy? Here are the people leading the Christian church today. 
What's happening is that you're trying to squeeze your square Christian beliefs into a round world reality and it's very bad when a person allows their religion to dictate their common sense. 
