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Well, the first question that pops into my mind is, "If God is so broken up about the state of things and has the power to change it, then why weep when he can do something about it?" And I'm sure the early church leaders were asked this same question for which they had no sensible answer. So they invented concept of free will--that God would love to change things and make them good but that would violate man's free will to do evil. So God's desire to do good is overpowered by man's free will to do evil. That makes evil men more powerful than God in my book. But when I say "God" I am referring to the Christian god, Yahweh who is a pagan god, that's verifiable:
"Jewish God Yahweh Originated in Canaanite Vulcan, Says New Theory
The cult of YHWH as god of metallurgy originated among semi-nomadic copper smelters between the Bronze and Iron Age. According to Amzallag, long before becoming the deity of the Israelites, Yahweh was a god of metallurgy in the ancient Canaanite pantheon [of gods], worshiped by smelters and metalworkers
So with regard to free will Christianity in my view spins a spider web of details that it gets further ensnarled in. In my book an explanation that creates more problems than it answers is proof positive it's not from any deity but is wholly man-made.
I kind of look at it like this. Uvalde was a tragedy, no doubt. But what IF....? What if God 'took them out' in order to prevent them from growing up to become a serial killer? Or, to die from a drug overdose at 15? In other words, what if God 'took them out' at the height of their innocence, in order to prevent them from making wrong decisions that would put them in hell?
O please. 90% of the children in a single classroom were destined to be serial killers or drug addicts? Maybe the slain teachers were already dealers?
Well, the first question that pops into my mind is, "If God is so broken up about the state of things and has the power to change it, then why weep when he can do something about it?"
Because of free will. Can't have love unless it's freely chosen. Yes, God DOES have the power to change it. But He also has the wisdom not to...at least, not right now.
Quote:
And I'm sure the early church leaders were asked this same question for which they had no sensible answer. So they invented concept of free will--that God would love to change things and make them good but that would violate man's free will to do evil. So God's desire to do good is overpowered by man's free will to do evil. That makes evil men more powerful than God in my book. But when I say "God" I am referring to the Christian god, Yahweh who is a pagan god, that's verifiable:[.QUOTE]
The concept of free will wasn't 'invented' by church leaders. It's a natural state. Part of evolution.
I mean seriously, what are the other options...IF God wants to have creatures to love? Create nothing. Create man so that man is more robotic than robots...or, give man a free will to either love Him or reject Him. Sorry thrill, but FORCED love, isn't love. BTDT. No cool...
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Quote:
I]"Jewish God Yahweh Originated in Canaanite Vulcan, Says New Theory
The cult of YHWH as god of metallurgy originated among semi-nomadic copper smelters between the Bronze and Iron Age. According to Amzallag, long before becoming the deity of the Israelites, Yahweh was a god of metallurgy in the ancient Canaanite pantheon [of gods], worshiped by smelters and metalworkers
[/i] https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/...f-fda6aa390000
I think God came into this world WELL BEFORE the Bronze Age.
So with regard to free will Christianity in my view spins a spider web of details that it gets further ensnarled in. In my book an explanation that creates more problems than it answers is proof positive it's not from any deity but is wholly man-made.[/quote]
Free will matters. To me, it explains quite a bit as to what's happened from the time of Adam.
In all seriousness thrill, pride DOES seem to be the 'evil' that causes MOST of the world's problems.
O please. 90% of the children in a single classroom were destined to be serial killers or drug addicts? Maybe the slain teachers were already dealers?
You really should quit while you're behind.
And you really REALLY believe that ALL kids will be innocent until the day they die? You have NO IDEA how those kids would have turned out, if they continued on their life journey. GOD knows, but *you* don't.
And maybe those slain teachers WOULD have become adulterers...if they weren't already.
Again, *you* have NO IDEA...
And neither does anyone else.
But just because *you* don't know, doesn't mean that God's reasons are "bad".
And you really REALLY believe that ALL kids will be innocent until the day they die? You have NO IDEA how those kids would have turned out, if they continued on their life journey. GOD knows, but *you* don't.
And maybe those slain teachers WOULD have become adulterers...if they weren't already.
Again, *you* have NO IDEA...
And neither does anyone else.
But just because *you* don't know, doesn't mean that God's reasons are "bad".
I enjoy most of your posts. But I have trouble wirh this one. So God punishes people for what they may do in the future? Or will do in the future? Before they had a chance to sin or repent. I sure hope that because he prevented future sinning by the two teachers or by the young children that the shooter is hero is NOT a hero to your type if thinking.
I could not imagine telling the husbands that their wife was either a cheater or will be. Or the parents that their children deserved to die because they will not be as innocent in the future as they are now.
Perhaps because I am not a believer I find the cooments in your post very hard to accept or even understand. Plus is not your God supposed to be fair, just and loving. I have a difficult time reconsiling the fair, just and loving with let them be killed before they do something wrong. I do not believe he exists so I certainly do not blame God for these tragedies but I do find it horrible these kinds of excuses created by believers to defend himmfrom any blame.
You obviously feel diffetently. My post is not to try to convince you you're wrong but just to let you know how it reads from the outside.
I enjoy most of your posts. But I have trouble wirh this one. So God punishes people for what they may do in the future? Or will do in the future? Before they had a chance to sin or repent. I sure hope that because he prevented future sinning by the two teachers or by the young children that the shooter is hero is NOT a hero to your type if thinking.
I could not imagine telling the husbands that their wife was either a cheater or will be. Or the parents that their children deserved to die because they will not be as innocent in the future as they are now.
Perhaps because I am not a believer I find the cooments in your post very hard to accept or even understand. Plus is not your God supposed to be fair, just and loving. I have a difficult time reconsiling the fair, just and loving with let them be killed before they do something wrong. I do not believe he exists so I certainly do not blame God for these tragedies but I do find it horrible these kinds of excuses created by believers to defend himmfrom any blame.
You obviously feel diffetently. My post is not to try to convince you you're wrong but just to let you know how it reads from the outside.
You atheists are all correct that "Christians" have fallen down on the job re the school shootings.
If they would direct a fraction of their zeal for the unborn towards 10-y/o or any child already born, we wouldn't be having this immense tragedy. Certainly not at this scale.
I turned off my online pastor today when I saw he wasn't going to address it. Man up, Christians!
"Thoughts and prayers" is turning into an insult/cheap meme to hide behind. I may still be a Jesus-follower but am not going to identify with the psuedo-christian label anymore. Disgraceful.
There! Somebody's gotta say it and many thanks to you who already were brave enough to address it.
You atheists are all correct that "Christians" have fallen down on the job re the school shootings.
If they would direct a fraction of their zeal for the unborn towards 10-y/o or any child already born, we wouldn't be having this immense tragedy. Certainly not at this scale.
I turned off my online pastor today when I saw he wasn't going to address it. Man up, Christians!
"Thoughts and prayers" is turning into an insult/cheap meme to hide behind. I may still be a Jesus-follower but am not going to identify with the psuedo-christian label anymore. Disgraceful.
There! Somebody's gotta say it and many thanks to you who already were brave enough to address it.
I am a firm believer, no punn intended, that people don't like "my group" because of some of the things we do.
Good show in applying what your jesus said to yourself first.
No. I'm by far a fundamentalist. I don't believe that "if you do this/don't do this, you WILL go to HELL"...while waving my fist in the air. Angry eyes. Curved down mouth. I've never once alluded to that philosophy as my belief. If someone took me that way, well...that's on them. Not me. I've expressed my belief in Purgatory, and that makes sense to me. I have no designs to judge anyone, because I just don't have God's knowledge.
I don't look at something like Uvalde and think--or even say---that, "God works in 'mysterious ways'". I DO believe that His ways, quite often, are unknown to us. But only because we have limited knowledge of God.
I kind of look at it like this. Uvalde was a tragedy, no doubt. But what IF....? What if God 'took them out' in order to prevent them from growing up to become a serial killer? Or, to die from a drug overdose at 15? In other words, what if God 'took them out' at the height of their innocence, in order to prevent them from making wrong decisions that would put them in hell? Believe me, I'm not being insensitive to the suffering. I just lost a dear friend a few months ago... While I prayed for his life, I also said, "THY WILL BE DONE"...and asked that IF God was going to 'take him', that he didn't suffer. He died 4 days later. And according to the nurses, he didn't suffer. To me, my prayer was answered.
I remember that book! Always wanted to read it, but never did! But I like what C.S. Lewis wrote about pain and suffering the best. Makes the most sense to me.
C.S. Lewis said (I'm paraphrasing again) that perhaps his definition of 'love' is what had to change.
And I see that perhaps it's a bit more than that. Perhaps (y)our definition of what's "perfect" must change.
After all, what IS "perfect"?
it wouldn't make sense that an all powerful god couldn't just snap his fingers and it all gets better without us even knowing. A brain wipe every two weeks could be done. We could live in the land of "Oswald".
I think its more like tending a gardening or taking care of our body. We do what we can and wait for the system do what it does.
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While I prayed for his life, I also said, "THY WILL BE DONE"...and asked that IF God was going to 'take him', that he didn't suffer. He died 4 days later. And according to the nurses, he didn't suffer. To me, my prayer was answered. 
