Atheism As A REJECTION OF--Not Disbelief In--An Evil God (Buddhism, souls, hell)
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Because of free will. Can't have love unless it's freely chosen. Yes, God DOES have the power to change it. But He also has the wisdom not to...at least, not right now.
So with regard to free will Christianity in my view spins a spider web of details that it gets further ensnarled in. In my book an explanation that creates more problems than it answers is proof positive it's not from any deity but is wholly man-made.
Free will matters. To me, it explains quite a bit as to what's happened from the time of Adam.
In all seriousness thrill, pride DOES seem to be the 'evil' that causes MOST of the world's problems.
And LOVE seems to 'cure'.
I'd rather have that choice, than not....
But how do you feel about Yahweh originally being just a minor Canaanite god among a group of gods who were headed by El, the big-shot god, and Yahweh being married to Asherah, another Canaanite god long before the Hebrews adopted Yahweh as their god? Doesn't the thought of Yahweh starting off as a pagan god bother you?
"God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar."
I enjoy most of your posts. But I have trouble wirh this one. So God punishes people for what they may do in the future? Or will do in the future? Before they had a chance to sin or repent. I sure hope that because he prevented future sinning by the two teachers or by the young children that the shooter is hero is NOT a hero to your type if thinking.
I could not imagine telling the husbands that their wife was either a cheater or will be. Or the parents that their children deserved to die because they will not be as innocent in the future as they are now.
Perhaps because I am not a believer I find the cooments in your post very hard to accept or even understand. Plus is not your God supposed to be fair, just and loving. I have a difficult time reconsiling the fair, just and loving with let them be killed before they do something wrong. I do not believe he exists so I certainly do not blame God for these tragedies but I do find it horrible these kinds of excuses created by believers to defend himmfrom any blame.
You obviously feel diffetently. My post is not to try to convince you you're wrong but just to let you know how it reads from the outside.
Exactly. It's a shocking answer--and coming from Mink, whose intelligence I greatly respect. She breaks her first rule of engagement: FREE WILL. Isn't killing these children violating their free will to choose to do evil when they grow up. This is what I mean about Christians getting ensarled in their own apologetics. But I have every confidence Mink can come up with a defense for her defense. And deeper down the rabbit hole we go.
But how do you feel about Yahweh originally being just a minor Canaanite god among a group of gods who were headed by El, the big-shot god, and Yahweh being married to Asherah, another Canaanite god long before the Hebrews adopted Yahweh as their god? Doesn't the thought of Yahweh starting off as a pagan god bother you?
"God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible -- Almost
God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar."
Yeah, well...whatever the Abrahamic Deity "started out originally" as...He became the #1 Deity, and has been for over a thousand years.
That Deity does a great job representing God...top-notch, couldn't be better!
I know how much you appreciate the great mojo of the Abrahamic Deity. So...remember your place relatively...and show proper respect & reverence.
Exactly. It's a shocking answer--and coming from Mink, whose intelligence I greatly respect. She breaks her first rule of engagement: FREE WILL. Isn't killing these children violating their free will to choose to do evil when they grow up. This is what I mean about Christians getting ensarled in their own apologetics. But I have every confidence Mink can come up with a defense for her defense. And deeper down the rabbit hole we go.
In a broad sense -- including in Buddhism, but it seems all too often in christianity -- there seems to be a need to grovel at the altar of a religion. To go overboard to show subservience. To exemplify principles by creating Cecil D. DeMille spectacles. To say things that if we saw them in movie or television show we would say, 'Have the screenwriters gone crazy? Can't they control themselves'. I will tell you that there is one thing that all religions ought to teach: self-control. At least in Buddhism we try to look toward the middle path, where possible.
Well, the first question that pops into my mind is, "If God is so broken up about the state of things and has the power to change it, then why weep when he can do something about it?" And I'm sure the early church leaders were asked this same question for which they had no sensible answer. So they invented concept of free will--that God would love to change things and make them good but that would violate man's free will to do evil. So God's desire to do good is overpowered by man's free will to do evil. That makes evil men more powerful than God in my book. But when I say "God" I am referring to the Christian god, Yahweh who is a pagan god, that's verifiable:
"Jewish God Yahweh Originated in Canaanite Vulcan, Says New Theory
The cult of YHWH as god of metallurgy originated among semi-nomadic copper smelters between the Bronze and Iron Age. According to Amzallag, long before becoming the deity of the Israelites, Yahweh was a god of metallurgy in the ancient Canaanite pantheon [of gods], worshiped by smelters and metalworkers
So with regard to free will Christianity in my view spins a spider web of details that it gets further ensnarled in. In my book an explanation that creates more problems than it answers is proof positive it's not from any deity but is wholly man-made.
Oh, man...you forgot AGAIN!
Suffering is a GOOD thing...a "fruit of the Spirit"...right there with peace, joy, and love.
The Bible literally says so:
Galatians 5:22-26
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Learn it...live it...and quit using your inferior understanding to complain about it.
Thril, all your angst about God emanates from the human assigned Omnis. We have no reason whatsoever to demand that God HAVE the Omni attributes other than our own human vanity and hubris. God may have no more control over the lives of the "cells" of His "Spirit body" (of which we are the sentient "cells") than we have over the lives of our body's cells. But such a God is unacceptable to most who demand that God possess the Omnis to qualify as God.
In my view, God is only interested in our development as Spirit, NOT our physical lives, and cares about all of us. There is a "far-out" possibility that would likely be even less acceptable than a non-OmniMax God. I too would find it hard to accept but it would be less troubling than the ugliness of our existing reality. Since God establishes our Reality and is pure consciousness (Spirit), it is entirely possible that what we consider our physical Reality is simply a spiritual "boot camp" that is in God's imagination (image?).
We experience it as a "shared dream" designed to form and shape our spiritual character. What we consider being awake may, in fact, be a dream and when we sleep we are removed from it for maintenance of the physical machinery. None of our Reality may be real in the final analysis since it is all interpreted by our consciousness. The fact that we experience it as a delayed playback through memory neurons is probative. As I said, it is "far-out."
Thril, all your angst about God emanates from the human assigned Omnis. We have no reason whatsoever to demand that God HAVE the Omni attributes other than our own human vanity and hubris. God may have no more control over the lives of the "cells" of His "Spirit body" (of which we are the sentient "cells") than we have over the lives of our body's cells. But such a God is unacceptable to most who demand that God possess the Omnis to qualify as God.
In my view, God is only interested in our development as Spirit, NOT our physical lives, and cares about all of us. There is a "far-out" possibility that would likely be even less acceptable than a non-OmniMax God. I too would find it hard to accept but it would be less troubling than the ugliness of our existing reality. Since God establishes our Reality and is pure consciousness (Spirit), it is entirely possible that what we consider our physical Reality is simply a spiritual "boot camp" that is in God's imagination (image?).
We experience it as a "shared dream" designed to form and shape our spiritual character. What we consider being awake may, in fact, be a dream and when we sleep we are removed from it for maintenance of the physical machinery. None of our Reality may be real in the final analysis since it is all interpreted by our consciousness. The fact that we experience it as a delayed playback through memory neurons is probative. As I said, it is "far-out."
Well, okay let's go with your premise, Mystic--that God is only interested in our spiritual development. Please explain to me how did the 19 children who were shot to pieces in Uvalde reach the apex of their spiritual development at such tender ages as 7 and 8? How do any children from stillborn to 7 YO--millions of children every year who die in the most slow, painful and horrendous ways--children who can't even begin to comprehend the idea of spiritual development--how are these children possibly reaching spiritual fruition?
Well, okay let's go with your premise, Mystic--that God is only interested in our spiritual development. Please explain to me how did the 19 children who were shot to pieces in Uvalde reach the apex of their spiritual development at such tender ages as 7 and 8? How do any children from stillborn to 7 YO--millions of children every year who die in the most slow, painful and horrendous ways--children who can't even begin to comprehend the idea of spiritual development--how are these children possibly reaching spiritual fruition?
because his type of god is not independent of the universe thrill.
Its like you want the best for all the cells in your body but you can't stop them from doing what they do. You eat right, exercise, and rest to help them all be healthy and happy. Yet your white blood cells will attack your own cells sometimes.
I find it difficult to see why you can't see that?
Last edited by Arach Angle; 05-30-2022 at 06:12 AM..
BTW, I think I told you that I checked out the audio book of the book you mentioned. Turns out that I'm not so good at sitting for hours, listening to an audio book. So, I've ordered the book instead. Should be here by June 3rd.
Remind me which book, because I've recommended a few in this forum over time...
You may be the first person I've known to actually follow up on any of the books I've recommended in this forum! I hope you'll let me know what you think when you've had a chance to read whichever book we're talking about here! Thanks!
I wonder if someone can explain to me why the one thread was merged with the other thread, as if they are one and the same topic? They are not. Then too what most of these comments have to do with the topic of either thread...
The title of this thread is a bit daffy for a couple of reasons, beginning with "An Evil God." As if atheism involves any kind of god. Good, bad or ugly.
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