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In my experience it is Old Atheism without any attempt at dialogue, because the dialogue loses to Theism quite easily.
The Old Atheist will use the oldskool dictionary definition of Atheism = a positive belief that God does not exist - thus being open to debate, which is great, that's all anybody asks for and l respect that.
The New Atheist will try to wriggle out of it by saying Atheism = a lack of belief in God, hence no need to argue.
I believe that 'New atheist' position was old atheist too and the only difference is that 'New Atheists' have a voice and will use it. But let's suppoe you were correct? Then it is no more 'wriggling' that science saying (to tip the hat to Pneuma's point) "Junk DNA seems to serve no purpose and atheists debunking Creationism leaping on that - I'm conceding the point - and when it seemed there was a purpose, dropping that argument. It's called being rational.
Thus, as I once argued to Mystic when he tried to force the 'Strong Atheist' position on us: "If that had been the case, then we would have to accept that it was a logically untenable position and we would have been logically obliged to adopt the logical one: 'a lack of belief in a god' (until persuasive evidence is forthcoming)" This is not wriggling, it is being logically sound. Which atheism -New or Old - is, in spades.
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Both positions are easily and rapidly defeated.
I can't wait to see you do it .
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The New Atheist doesn't go quietly though, the New Atheist will insult and move through the entire spectrum of logical fallacies, never able to form one sound argument. And then more insults. However, if the New Atheist has friends around, and the New Atheist will rarely argue without friends around, the main thing will be insults, little else.
Oh deary me. Instead of showing why we're wrong, you just attribute a lot of Nasty behaviour to us. Sunshine, I'll take you on solo and all your friends, even though there are many atheists posting here, mainly because the Theists don't dare to.
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The New Atheist will always assume you are a Christian and cuss the Bible rather than debate Theism, because it's so very easy like that.
As usual a grain of truth misrepresented. We do tend to assume Christianity because that is nearly always what we get. We are happy to be corrected. It is not an easy way Out nor do i see how it could be. Merely "Cussing the Bible" rather than filletting is as we do with all the expertise of a Kobe Sashimi - chef will hurt our cause rather than helping it, somewht as your deprecatoty line so far is not likely to do you any favours.
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If you say you are a Muslim the New Atheist will implode and every scurrilous tabloid headline of the past 20 years will be fired at you by a furious keyboard warrior. Which sums it up basically: New Atheism = Fury.
First misstep. In fact it is Theists who tend to fly off the handle at Islam and accuse atheists of being too soft on them.
What more you got?
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-21-2019 at 06:58 PM..
Dividing atheists into new and old groups suggests that there are two distinct, and opposing viewpoints on atheism, and we're all on one side or the other.
This is grossly overstating the degree to which any of us are, or ever have been, organized. The perception of a new atheism has come about as a consequence of the emergence of new media platforms, more accessible to all, from which to present one's views. Where before there was very little representation of an atheist point of view, now those views are getting more public exposure.
If that appears to be increased aggression, it is only by contrast to the previous inability to be more aggressive due to the lack of platforms. Also, the control of those platforms which were available, were by persons hostile to atheism or at least afraid of offending the religious.
I have never previously expressed myself on the subject to the degree that I have in this forum. Here it can be done consequence free (well, if you don't count dismal responses) I'm not any more or less aggressive about atheism than I have ever been, just now I have a better outlet for it. There is nothing new or old about my atheism.
In my experience it is Old Atheism without any attempt at dialogue, because the dialogue loses to Theism quite easily.
Your experience is limited.
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Originally Posted by TheresACatForThat
The Old Atheist will use the oldskool dictionary definition of Atheism = a positive belief that God does not exist - thus being open to debate, which is great, that's all anybody asks for and l respect that.
The New Atheist will try to wriggle out of it by saying Atheism = a lack of belief in God, hence no need to argue.
Your word game is just a straw man. And it is gods, plural. We do not believe in gods.
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Originally Posted by TheresACatForThat
Both positions are easily and rapidly defeated.
An assertion without evidence. We are ready when you are. What would you like to discuss? But please, no contradictory bogus arguments you copied but do not understand, that just makes you look like you have no credible arguments. That is also true for arguments that refute your own position. I will point them out when you make them.
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Originally Posted by TheresACatForThat
The New Atheist doesn't go quietly though, the New Atheist will insult and move through the entire spectrum of logical fallacies, never able to form one sound argument. And then more insults. However, if the New Atheist has friends around, and the New Atheist will rarely argue without friends around, the main thing will be insults, little else.
As I said, your experience is limited. Very limited. Or are you just inventing facts?
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Originally Posted by TheresACatForThat
The New Atheist will always assume you are a Christian and cuss the Bible rather than debate Theism, because it's so very easy like that.
So once again no credible argument, just using new atheism as an ad hominem.
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Originally Posted by TheresACatForThat
If you say you are a Muslim the New Atheist will implode and every scurrilous tabloid headline of the past 20 years will be fired at you by a furious keyboard warrior. Which sums it up basically: New Atheism = Fury.
Another definition of new atheism. You have basically limited new atheism to just one person, who actually denies he is an atheist.
As for fury, it was your tantrum that had your apologetic post locked, remember?
Dividing atheists into new and old groups suggests that there are two distinct, and opposing viewpoints on atheism, and we're all on one side or the other.
That distortion is probably intentional.
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Originally Posted by Grandstander
This is grossly overstating the degree to which any of us are, or ever have been, organized. The perception of a new atheism has come about as a consequence of the emergence of new media platforms, more accessible to all, from which to present one's views. Where before there was very little representation of an atheist point of view, now those views are getting more public exposure.
Disorganized groups make inconvenient foils. As such, some decide it is necessary to portray them as cohesive, even if factionalized.
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Originally Posted by Grandstander
If that appears to be increased aggression, it is only by contrast to the previous inability to be more aggressive due to the lack of platforms. Also, the control of those platforms which were available, were by persons hostile to atheism or at least afraid of offending the religious.
Whenever dominant cultural forces have begun to face any pushback against their dominance, their response has always been to cry about the 'aggressive threat' said pushback supposedly constitutes.
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Originally Posted by Grandstander
I have never previously expressed myself on the subject to the degree that I have in this forum. Here it can be done consequence free (well, if you don't count dismal responses) I'm not any more or less aggressive about atheism than I have ever been, just now I have a better outlet for it. There is nothing new or old about my atheism.
If today you're saying I DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD online, tomorrow you (or someone else) might lose the reticence to say it out loud. Pretty soon, atheism loses its taboo.
They are scared. Very. They needn't be. What they should be scared about is One kind of religious Take getting the political power it has been after for near 50 years. in which case the freedom to believe whatever Take They have on religion will put them into the same par as atheists. An irreligious society however would allow any and all religious (subject to Law ) to exist, but none dominate.
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Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
Your experience is limited.
Your word game is just a straw man. And it is gods, plural. We do not believe in gods.
An assertion without evidence. We are ready when you are. What would you like to discuss? But please, no contradictory bogus arguments you copied but do not understand, that just makes you look like you have no credible arguments. That is also true for arguments that refute your own position. I will point them out when you make them.
As I said, your experience is limited. Very limited. Or are you just inventing facts?
So once again no credible argument, just using new atheism as an ad hominem.
Another definition of new atheism. You have basically limited new atheism to just one person, who actually denies he is an atheist.
As for fury, it was your tantrum that had your apologetic post locked, remember?
Nothing from our new pal it seems. It's a shame he transpired to be just another drive -by anti -atheist polemicist. I just loved his screen -monicker
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-22-2019 at 06:27 AM..
They post when it is evening in Europe. On past evidence I believe they will return, repeat their assertions for 3 months, then flounce.
I'd much prefer that they stay and discuss - especially with such cool names. The initial exchanges with Turf 3 on 'dual nature of Jesus' (though I have of course gone off - topic), look far more promising than I'd expected.
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.
Oh deary me. Instead of showing why we're wrong, you just attribute a lot of Nasty behaviour to us. Sunshine, I'll take you on solo and all your friends, even though there are many atheists posting here, mainly because the Theists don't dare to. 
) to exist, but none dominate.
