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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.64%
No 257 50.69%
Unsure 49 9.66%
Voters: 507. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-04-2022, 09:00 PM
 
37,834 posts, read 46,419,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful Mind View Post
It’s amazing how delusional you are in order to believe in that garbage what you wrote. Your problem is that you can’t accept the truth and you live in a fantasy world, la la land. Russia. invaded Ukraine because we turned that country into ANTI-RUSSIA. Our Oligarchs want to get those natural resources that Russia has and they will never stop dreaming about it. Ukrainians are just collateral damage and no one really cares about those Fools. Bunch of useful idiots.

Wake Up!
I see you've exchanged "Good luck!" for "Wake up!".
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Old 08-04-2022, 09:22 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,799 posts, read 17,567,944 times
Reputation: 37710
The chart that shows progress best is the chart that shows the price of oil! Inflation and rising interest rates have the effect of lowering demand for oil and price, of course, falls with demand.
Now we are at $88 per barrel. Compare that with the recent high of $122, factor in the discount Russia is forced to accept from the few buyers it has left, and it is clear just who is winning the Russia/Ukraine war. To be fair, we should probably say "who is losing", since the "winner" will be very, very bloody.



Oil prices are expected to keep falling. Russia is now getting something like $60/ barrel for their oil and that's delivered. There are no numbers showing how much it costs to get it out of the ground and handled and so forth but a figure of around $50 would be expected.



Russia, in due time, will become impoverished. China has no reason to pay full price for Russian oil and neither does India. All the Ukrainians really have to do is hold fast.


If you want to see what it is like when a country goes broke look to Sri Lanka. They have gone broke. Schools have closed. There is no money for the government to buy fuel or food or medicine. The middle class, which was building so well in 2019, has evaporated as people lose everything they had. Numerous videos so I won't post one.
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Old 08-04-2022, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,817 posts, read 2,761,970 times
Reputation: 3388
Todays Update...Ukraine Counteroffensive is on

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...sment-august-4

Quote:
Ukraine is likely seizing the strategic initiative and forcing Russia to reallocate forces and reprioritize efforts in response to Ukrainian counteroffensive operations.

Russian forces are increasingly transferring personnel and equipment to Kherson and western Zaporizhia Oblasts at the expense of their efforts to seize Slovyansk and Siversk, which they appear to have abandoned. Russian forces are also redeploying military equipment – artillery and aviation in particular – to Crimea from elsewhere in Ukraine. Russian forces have previously withdrawn from or suspended offensive operations on Kharkiv City and the southern axis to prioritize capturing Luhansk Oblast, but they did so on their own initiative based on the changing priorities of their commanders. Russian forces in this case appear to be responding to the Ukrainian counteroffensive threat in Kherson Oblast rather than deliberately choosing objectives on which to concentrate their efforts. Even after Ukrainian forces defeated the Russian attempt to seize Kyiv early in the war, the Russians were able to choose freely to concentrate their operations in the east. Ukraine’s preparations for the counteroffensive in Kherson and the initial operations in that counteroffensive combined with the dramatic weakening of Russian forces generally appear to be allowing Ukraine to begin actively shaping the course of the war for the first time.

The seriousness of the dilemma facing the Russian high command likely depends on Ukraine’s ability to sustain significant counteroffensive operations on multiple axes simultaneously.

If Ukraine is able to press hard around Izyum as it continues rolling into the counteroffensive in Kherson, then Russian forces will begin confronting very difficult choices. They will likely need to decide either to abandon their westward positions around Izyum in favor of defending their ground lines of communications (GLOCs) further north and east or to commit more personnel and equipment to try to hold the current front line. Such forces would have to come from another axis, however, putting other Russian gains at risk.

Russian forces are likely operating in five to seven strike groups of unclear size around Bakhmut, based on the Ukrainian General Staff descriptions of Russian assaults in the area.

Explosions occurred near the Donetsk Drama Theater and Penal Colony #124 in occupied Donetsk City on August 4.[2] Russian media widely publicized the explosions and blamed Ukrainian artillery, but the Ukrainian Office of the President denied any shelling of Donetsk City on August 4.
Key Takeaways

Quote:
Ukraine is likely seizing the strategic initiative and forcing Russia to reallocate forces and reprioritize efforts in response to Ukrainian counteroffensive operations.

Russian forces attempted to advance northwest of Izyum.

Ukrainian forces conducted a series of localized counterattacks between Izyum and Slovyansk and regained positions in a number of settlements.

Russian forces continued ground attacks northeast and south of Bakhmut.

Russian troops continued attempts to advance on Pisky and conducted a limited ground attack southwest of Donetsk City.

Russian forces continued to transfer equipment and personnel to northeastern Kherson and western Zaporizhia Oblasts.
Activity in Russian-occupied Areas

Quote:
Russian authorities continued setting conditions for long-term Russian control of the occupied territories in Ukraine. The Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on August 4 that the Russian Ministry of Construction and Housing and Communal Affairs released a document titled “Concept of the Master Plan for the Development of the City of Mariupol.”[39] The report states that Russian occupation authorities intend to fully integrate Mariupol into the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) with a prospect of accession into Russia and that the Ministry plans to restore transport and social infrastructure “within the next few years.”[40] The report projects Mariupol’s population to grow to 200,000 by 2025. Its population had numbered approximately 500,000 prior to the most recent Russian invasion of Ukraine.[41]

Residents of occupied territories continued resisting Russian occupation efforts on August 4. Advisor to the Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs Vadym Denisenko reported that Russian occupation officials have struggled to find volunteers to form standard 15-person election commissions and have instead established a 7-person committee in Kherson City.[42] Previous Kherson Oblast elections had 10,000 commissions while Russian officials are only planning to form 1,500, of which most will be staged for TV propaganda efforts.[43]

The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Russian forces are illegally seizing businesses in Kherson City and that Ukrainian employees refuse to work for Russian-controlled enterprises.[44] Kherson Oblast Administration Head Dmytro Butrii reported that Russian authorities kidnapped Hornostaiv community head Dmytro Lyakhno and local volunteer Oleksandr Slisarenko for reportedly refusing to cooperate with occupation officials in Kherson Oblast on August 3
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Old 08-04-2022, 09:58 PM
 
1,726 posts, read 921,498 times
Reputation: 2651
Great opinion article from a senior analyst at Al-Jazeera. I swear Al-Jazeera is the best for foreign reporting. The article goes in detail about the war of deception being waged by both sides. In war the narrative is not only controlled but also manipulated in the way to present one side winning and the others as losers. This is to keep public support, because once public support falls the war will be over. It makes you wonder, what is the truth? As a U.S. resident, I'm tired of news sources failing to report the complete war picture. My news feed on yahoo is bombarded with news showing Ukrainian accomplishments, with most of these deriving from Ukrainian sources directly with no real fact checking. It’s interesting how both sides accuse the other of propaganda while believing their leaders are telling the truth. Don’t' be naïve people. Investigate for yourself, or else you have no one to blame once the truth finally comes out like Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan wars.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...ar-on-truth-in
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Old 08-05-2022, 04:36 AM
 
3,291 posts, read 1,652,638 times
Reputation: 2926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Ukrainians invaded the Donbass…
The Ukrainians invaded their own country?

That’s some real doublespeak right there.

Quote:
And invasion? You have fallen for the silly narrative that Ukraine is the poor little innocent country being attacked and invaded. Ukraine is an evil country, and Russia is driving the devil out. Just like the allies did in Nazi Germany, when they invaded and attacked it.

Russia will not die, else the whole world will die. Is your fondness of Nazis worth ending the world?
The Russians are getting so much mileage from their nazi meme.

“Driving the devil out” is pure genocide talk. The clean and the unclean just like Papa Putin said.
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:50 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,799 posts, read 17,567,944 times
Reputation: 37710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
Great opinion article from a senior analyst at Al-Jazeera. I swear Al-Jazeera is the best for foreign reporting. The article goes in detail about the war of deception being waged by both sides. In war the narrative is not only controlled but also manipulated in the way to present one side winning and the others as losers. This is to keep public support, because once public support falls the war will be over. It makes you wonder, what is the truth? As a U.S. resident, I'm tired of news sources failing to report the complete war picture. My news feed on yahoo is bombarded with news showing Ukrainian accomplishments, with most of these deriving from Ukrainian sources directly with no real fact checking. It’s interesting how both sides accuse the other of propaganda while believing their leaders are telling the truth. Don’t' be naïve people. Investigate for yourself, or else you have no one to blame once the truth finally comes out like Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan wars.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...ar-on-truth-in
First you acknowledge the article is an opinion piece, then you recognize Al-Jazeera as a source of reporting. Opinion. Report. Two different things.


The winner of this war will not be determined by activities in Ukraine. It will be determined by the price of oil, the longevity of sanctions, and the longevity of the boycotts. No matter what territory Russia seizes and no matter what passport Russia issues to the citizens of Ukraine, this war will destroy Russia economically.


OF COURSE propaganda is being used! It always has been, so let's not pretend this is something brand new that only applies to this war. German citizens were assured they were winning and so were Japanese citizens.
"The truth" will be more like the destruction of the USSR than Vietnam.


Oil price today is down again today, to $87. All sanctions and all boycotts remain in place.

Last edited by Listener2307; 08-05-2022 at 08:10 AM..
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:54 AM
 
21,422 posts, read 7,520,927 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_N View Post
The Ukrainians invaded their own country?

That’s some real doublespeak right there.
That's the talk from the boys from Olgino.

Firehose of Falsehood | Rand Corporation

Wikipedia summary
"... the firehose of falsehood model has four distinguishing factors:
(1) it is high-volume and multichannel,
(2) it is rapid, continuous, and repetitive,
(3) it lacks a commitment to objective reality; and
(4) it lacks commitment to consistency.

The high volume of messages, the use of multiple channels, and the use of internet bots and fake accounts are effective because people are more likely to believe a story when it appears to have been reported by multiple sources.

In addition to the recognizably-Russian news source, RT, for example, Russia disseminates propaganda using dozens of proxy websites, whose connection to RT is "disguised or downplayed." People are also more likely to believe a story when they think many others believe it, especially if those others belong to a group with which they identify. Thus, an army of trolls can influence a person's opinion by creating the false impression that a majority of that person's neighbors support a given view."
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:20 AM
 
5,125 posts, read 2,802,569 times
Reputation: 6975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
That's the talk from the boys from Olgino.

Firehose of Falsehood | Rand Corporation

Wikipedia summary
"... the firehose of falsehood model has four distinguishing factors:
(1) it is high-volume and multichannel,
(2) it is rapid, continuous, and repetitive,
(3) it lacks a commitment to objective reality; and
(4) it lacks commitment to consistency.

The high volume of messages, the use of multiple channels, and the use of internet bots and fake accounts are effective because people are more likely to believe a story when it appears to have been reported by multiple sources.

In addition to the recognizably-Russian news source, RT, for example, Russia disseminates propaganda using dozens of proxy websites, whose connection to RT is "disguised or downplayed." People are also more likely to believe a story when they think many others believe it, especially if those others belong to a group with which they identify. Thus, an army of trolls can influence a person's opinion by creating the false impression that a majority of that person's neighbors support a given view."
As does Ukrainian propaganda, with additional help from the West. And plenty of of Ukie-bots working away at this to shape the required narrative.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:32 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,799 posts, read 17,567,944 times
Reputation: 37710
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
As does Ukrainian propaganda, with additional help from the West. And plenty of of Ukie-bots working away at this to shape the required narrative.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/201...nce-pkg-nr.cnn


We find plenty of evidence that Russia has long employed active trolls.
Shouldn't you provide similar evidence that Ukrainian trolls exist?
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:57 AM
bu2
 
24,247 posts, read 15,084,412 times
Reputation: 13116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
First you acknowledge the article is an opinion piece, then you recognize Al-Jazeera as a source of reporting. Opinion. Report. Two different things.


The winner of this war will not be determined by activities in Ukraine. It will be determined by the price of oil, the longevity of sanctions, and the longevity of the boycotts. No matter what territory Russia seizes and no matter what passport Russia issues to the citizens of Ukraine, this war will destroy Russia economically.


OF COURSE propaganda is being used! It always has been, so let's not pretend this is something brand new that only applies to this war. German citizens were assured they were winning and so were Japanese citizens.
"The truth" will be more like the destruction of the USSR than Vietnam.


Oil price today is down again today, to $87. All sanctions and all boycotts remain in place.
Opinion writer kind of lost me when he said he didn't know whether some things were true or not that were pretty demonstrably true (like Russian troop deployments). Also he kept repeating the line that the western press was saying Ukraine was winning the war, which it is not. It emphasizes the positive over the negative, but you rarely see that claim. Mainly you see the claims that are demonstrably true, such as the Russian losses that the author says he doesn't believe.
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