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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.64%
No 257 50.69%
Unsure 49 9.66%
Voters: 507. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-17-2023, 05:14 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,985 posts, read 9,722,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Within the first day of Hamas terrorists' attack, the USA supplied Israel with weapons. Now two aircraft carriers are headed to the area. Only if Ukraine has this level of support from the USA. Don't get me wrong. Israel is an ally and deserves the support, but they can easily defend themselves and are not facing an existential threat. Ukraine is. Hamas terrorists launched everything they had at Israel on the first day. Now they have little left and are basically waiting to be killed. Russian terrorists, on the other hand, can keep on attacking Ukraine for years.

Words on the street is Russia and Iran backed this attack on Israel. If true, it is a smart move by Russia. America's attention and resources are now on Israel and less on Ukraine.
1. Israel is more important than Ukraine, and has a number of American hostages

2. Russia has nukes

3. The middle east is more important than Eastern Europe

4. Israel can't "easily defend itself" against Iran and Hezbollah


Multiple conflicts never get the same priority.
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Old 10-17-2023, 05:26 AM
 
6,692 posts, read 12,202,891 times
Reputation: 5341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
1. Israel is more important than Ukraine, and has a number of American hostages

2. Russia has nukes

3. The middle east is more important than Eastern Europe

4. Israel can't "easily defend itself" against Iran and Hezbollah


Multiple conflicts never get the same priority.
Probably reasons 1 and 2 are the biggest ones. Anyhow Ukraine has been treated like the bastard stepchild in world conflicts, just because of its corruption or whatever. Many are even pro-Russia. Normally the US is the world's police and stands for injustice. We were involved in Kosovo/Bosnia/Serbia in the 90's/Clinton years, as well as Somalia and Rwanda. I can't think of many conflicts we weren't directly involved in, at least in recent decades.
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Old 10-17-2023, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,998 posts, read 2,770,972 times
Reputation: 7793
have ATACMS arrived in country?..sure looks that way..10 helicopters and an ammo depot Kaboomed..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwFQTQ5LWwg
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Old 10-17-2023, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,817 posts, read 2,761,970 times
Reputation: 3388
ISW Update 10/16/23

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ctober-16-2023

Quote:
Oct 16, 2023 - ISW Press

Russia likely deployed elements of at least two Central Military District (CMD) brigades to reinforce offensive operations by Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) forces on the Avdiivka front. A Ukrainian military observer reported on October 16 that three Russian brigades — the DNR’s 114th Motorized Rifle Brigade (MRB) and the CMD’s 15th and 21st MRBs (both of the 2nd Combined Arms Army [2nd CAA]) — have been involved in recent attacks on Avdiivka alongside various scattered DNR elements, while Russian forces are holding the CMD’s 30th MRB in tactical reserve. Elements of the CMD, particularly of the 2nd CAA, have been active along the Svatove-Kreminna line until recently, and the newly formed 25th CAA likely relieved them along the Svatove-Kreminna line. 2nd CAA elements have primarily conducted defensive operations along the Svatove-Kreminna line for the last several months and have therefore likely had more time to rest and reconstitute before deploying to a more challenging sector of the frontline, which accounts in part for recent Russian advances in the previously stagnant Avdiivka sector of the front.
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Old 10-17-2023, 09:04 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,799 posts, read 17,567,944 times
Reputation: 37710
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sim_Mister View Post
Small difference, Russia has nukes
That's what they say. And they certainly used to have them!
But not everyone is convinced they still have dependable nuclear weapons. Most of the other Russian technology has proven to be poorly maintained, faulty, or outright mythical.
Hypersonic missiles, nukes, torpedoes with range of hundreds of miles..... I dunno. I'm skeptical. They haven't tested a nuke since 1987.
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Old 10-17-2023, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,817 posts, read 2,761,970 times
Reputation: 3388
Quote:
Originally Posted by double6's View Post
have ATACMS arrived in country?..sure looks that way..10 helicopters and an ammo depot Kaboomed..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwFQTQ5LWwg
Hmmm

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/...79142517325953

Quote:
News: The US secretly provided Ukraine with long-range ATACMS missiles and the missiles are now in the country, according to two US officials. The US decided in recent weeks to send them quietly because they wanted to take the Russians by surprise. w/
@OrenCNN
confirming WSJ
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Old 10-17-2023, 09:46 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,455 posts, read 108,880,609 times
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Quote:
The US decided in recent weeks to send them quietly because they wanted to take the Russians by surprise.
And thanks to the WSJ, Russia now knows all about it.
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Old 10-17-2023, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,998 posts, read 2,770,972 times
Reputation: 7793
from twitter

Quote:
Not much. Just Ukraine bombing an orc airfield, 9 helicopters, an airforce ammo depot and a Pantsir air defense system to smithereens with ATACMS cluster missiles.
https://twitter.com/AartsMichael/sta...63796846297392
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Old 10-17-2023, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,998 posts, read 2,770,972 times
Reputation: 7793
Quote:
Our agreements with President Biden are being fulfilled. They are performed very accurately - "ATACMS" have proven themselves. Glory to Ukraine! — Zelensky
https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/...08224826912879
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Old 10-17-2023, 11:22 AM
 
26,342 posts, read 49,351,011 times
Reputation: 31980
Reports are coming in that the Ukraine has employed our ATACMS, long sought by Ukraine. The NY Times has this story today:

Quote:
The Ukrainian attacks, on a base near the city of Berdiansk, in the south, and another base in Luhansk, in the east — widely reported by Russian military bloggers, but not acknowledged by Russian authorities — destroyed nine helicopters, an ammunition depot and military equipment, along with damaging runways, according to Ukraine’s special operations forces. ... Most ATACMS have a range of about 190 miles, or about 40 miles more than the minimum range of the French SCALP missiles and British Storm Shadows that were delivered to Ukraine earlier this year. The American missile will add to that arsenal, but its range is limited to less than the British Storm Shadow.

ATACMS can be fitted with cluster munitions that can pock airport runways making them unusable for fixed wing aircraft. Hopefully these missiles can reach bases in Crimea, possibly to Russia's Black Sea Fleet and the Kerch Bridge.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 10-17-2023 at 11:58 AM..
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