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Huh? You didn't read my post or the link I provided, did you.
I think you are purposly obfuscating the issue. A CUSTOM wedding cake, done specifically for an individual couple is different than baking dozens of cakes exactly the same for sale to whoever may want one.
This is a custom product. He shouldn't be forced into the service of someone by making a custom product for them, if it forces him to dignify a relationship that, according to his religion, is sin and debauchery. How much more plain can this be? He is being forced to make a cake specifically for this pair. To my mind, that amounts to "involuntary servitude."
You, as an atheist, do not have to agree. But you are not the law.
It is not involuntary servitude when the bakery VOLUNTARILY CHOSE to offer wedding cakes for sale to the general public. No one forced the baker to offer wedding cakes. He can decide at any time to stop selling wedding cakes. What he can not do is choose to not sell wedding cakes to a specific segment of the population while selling them to everyone else.
Where did I say I discriminate against any particular group? I think a business is foolish to turn away revenue based on personal beliefs, but I defend their right to be bad at business. If I ran a bakery, I'd bake a cake for my ex-wife if she had the cash, and I can't think of anyone with whom I'd like to associate with less than her. But if a black business owner doesn't want to serve white people, or a gay business owner doesn't want to serve fundamentalist Christian homophobes, or a vegan naturalist doesn't want to serve fat smokers who wear animal fur, or whatever...that is and should remain THEIR BUSINESS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmqueen
BTW, the reason you're wrong is right in that statement. A business open to the public is not a private citizen.
Go ahead and refuse to let those icky gays or nasty blacks into your home. But to discriminate in business in unAmerican.
Also vile.
To discriminate in business is business. Businesses discriminate all the time. You are taking issue with one specific kind of discrimination, but discrimination happens all the time, rightfully so. I discriminate when seeking work for my home. I selected my electrician based on appearance, demeanor, attitude, etc. None of that had anything to do with the job, but he was chosen over two others because I simply felt like it based on wildly subjective criteria. I flat out didn't like the way the other two presented themselves. Period. My money, my job, my freedom of association. All were white, so it wasn't race based, but it was definitely based on "the look of 'em." Shallow? Maybe. But again, my money, my job, my choice.
and where did I specifically single out blacks and gays? Best employee in the fast food world I ever saw was a gay guy at a local bagel shop. If I started a company tomorrow doing anything, I'd hire that gay guy for something just because every time I ever saw him, he was all hustle, hard work and go go go. Never saw anyone move so fast and work so hard at a job most people mail in and mark time at.
This typical of liberals though. Because I champion freedom, you think I champion every possible use of it. I don't. I think people misuse their freedom in all manner of repugnant and totally repellent ways that I find personally detestable. But the vast majority do not, so I am not willing to cast freedom aside universally simply because some cannot put it to proper use. In the case of the business that uses Christian belief as justification to not serve gay people, I think that a foolish waste of revenue. I would personally advise the business owner that the baking of a cake is not tantamount to endorsement of homosexuality, and would remind them that the Lord and Savior they profess belief in defended a prostitute against an angry mob, asked His Father to forgive his executioners for they knew not what they did, and made a crusade of helping/healing/associating with those the society He lived in deemed the worst of the worst. I would also say that negative publicity towards gays in a market that clearly has a noticeable percentage of gay consumers is foolish.
But I would always defend their freedom of association.
Last edited by Volobjectitarian; 01-29-2014 at 11:41 AM..
But if a black business owner doesn't want to serve white people, or a gay business owner doesn't want to serve fundamentalist Christian homophobes, or a vegan naturalist doesn't want to serve fat smokers who wear animal fur, or whatever...that is and should remain THEIR BUSINESS.
Well said. We should have the freedom to deal with whoever we want, even if it's considered discriminatory. If a gay bakery wants to refuse a custom cake order from an Evangelical church, that should be their right too. That provides ultimate freedom for everyone. Forcing people to give up their rights if they want to operate certain types of business increases freedom for one group while reduces freedom for others.
Why would you want to fill the pockets of someone who doesn't want to do business with you anyway? I don't subscribe to HBO because it's full of anti-Conservative programming. The last thing I want is to help them make more of that.
Well said. We should have the freedom to deal with whoever we want, even if it's considered discriminatory. If a gay bakery wants to refuse a custom cake order from an Evangelical church, that should be their right too. That provides ultimate freedom for everyone. Forcing people to give up their rights if they want to operate certain types of business increases freedom for one group while reduces freedom for others.
Why would you want to fill the pockets of someone who doesn't want to do business with you anyway? I don't subscribe to HBO because it's full of anti-Conservative programming. The last thing I want is to help them make more of that.
Yes. And that's reasonable behavior rather than starting a campaign to make hbo change its programming.
Well said. We should have the freedom to deal with whoever we want, even if it's considered discriminatory. If a gay bakery wants to refuse a custom cake order from an Evangelical church, that should be their right too. That provides ultimate freedom for everyone. Forcing people to give up their rights if they want to operate certain types of business increases freedom for one group while reduces freedom for others.
Why would you want to fill the pockets of someone who doesn't want to do business with you anyway? I don't subscribe to HBO because it's full of anti-Conservative programming. The last thing I want is to help them make more of that.
Agreed. Just because a homosexual couple is denied a cake does not mean hate or harm. The baker is not refusing to bake the cake because the homosexuals don't believe in the Bible, but because the baker does believe in the bible, and believes that it forbids him to affirm the validity of a homosexual 'marriage'.
Having the state forcing them to go against their beliefs is very wrong and abuse in power.
I'll bet everyone who didn't approve of the lifestyle in Sodom and Gomora were labeled as .............."haters"............." bigots".................." discriminators"
A shame that gays want to drag everyone down to their level of behavior.
Why would you want to fill the pockets of someone who doesn't want to do business with you anyway?
Nothing more needs to be said. There are many others who will take your money. Having said, that I wouldn't discriminate. In fact, were I a business owner, the sign on my door in addition to no shoes, no shirt, no service, would also say no agenda, no problem.
I trust the free market to keep discrimination to a minimum.
If our nation had respected the right of association from the get go there would have been no slavery or Jim Crow.
Thank the Democrats. They have always hated the freedom of association, and still do as evidenced by all their unconstitutional "protected classes."
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